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No WWII? What aspects of Nazi ideology would be acceptable today?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by marktwain View Post

    '''according to the Late Peter Walmsley, one group of the mentally deficient that was overlooked was the Nazi street fighters of the 1920-30's, promoted to comfortable manager and oversight positions by 1939- who completely messed things up.
    Peter was part of an mi-6 investigation group in 1945-46 that examined Nazi technology , and said that the design work scared him- but the management organization to produce it was complete chaotic jungle.

    He looked at designs from as early as1937 to produce proximity fuses that would have worked with some simplification and tweaking.

    \the German development engineers claimed that they were stymied by gauleiter interference, as the 'senior Nazi' in charge thought the idea of 'firing a radio transmitter in an artillery shell' was simply egghead silliness.
    Well, the Germans are hardly alone in bureaucrats and high officials that were idiots. The US had them, the British had them, the French had them, and the Russians had them. It's simply the Peter Principle in action. The more hidebound and unaccountable the bureaucracy that created them is, the less likely they get fired or replaced by someone with more competence.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
      Perhaps Eugenics and “Human Engineering “ ?
      Nazis did not invent eugenics : eugenics existed already before 1933 and still exists today .Teddy Roosevelt was supporting eugenics before WWI ,as was Churchill .

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      • #33
        People are forgetting ONE essential thing ,which is that even if Germany won WWII, the Third Reich would have collapsed before 1953 , and that without WWII the same would happen .
        OTOH, this would not influence the survival of nazi ideology .
        Nazi ideology is not dead, it is alive and kicking and increasing its power over the world .
        Eugenics, anti semitism,state domination,disdain for human life, idolatry of science,intolerance, they have not disappeared .

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        • #34
          Originally posted by ljadw View Post
          People are forgetting ONE essential thing ,which is that even if Germany won WWII, the Third Reich would have collapsed before 1953 , and that without WWII the same would happen .
          OTOH, this would not influence the survival of nazi ideology .
          Is this a rehash of the Tooze 'Wages of Destruction' theory?
          If it is you're forgetting ONE essential thing...……. it's pure speculation. Well argued, well researched, very readable and in many ways quite reasonable but still just...…..

          If it's not then can you explain the basis of YOUR speculation?

          lodestar was neither liked nor trusted.
          Not by those who raised him, those he grew up with and went to school with, those he worked with and associated with as an adult, nor those who know him now.
          One woman told him she felt uneasy around him because: 'Your eyes are the colour of dirty coins.'


          Regards lodestar



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          • #35
            Originally posted by lodestar View Post

            Is this a rehash of the Tooze 'Wages of Destruction' theory?
            If it is you're forgetting ONE essential thing...……. it's pure speculation. Well argued, well researched, very readable and in many ways quite reasonable but still just...…..

            If it's not then can you explain the basis of YOUR speculation?

            lodestar was neither liked nor trusted.
            Not by those who raised him, those he grew up with and went to school with, those he worked with and associated with as an adult, nor those who know him now.
            One woman told him she felt uneasy around him because: 'Your eyes are the colour of dirty coins.'


            Regards lodestar


            If Germany won the war it would need a WM of 4 million men, in peacetime, for generations, to protect its new empire
            East : 60 divisions 1,2 million
            other occupied countries :an other 60 divisions ,an other 1.2 million men
            Home forces : a minimum of 30 divisions and 1 million men
            LW and KM : more than 6 00000 men
            Total : 4 million men . This was politically, financially and demographically out of the question .
            Imagine US with armed forces of 5% of its population : 16 million in peacetime and for generations .
            The exploitation of the east was an illusion : exploitation means occupation (impossible ) and colonisation (impossible : the Germans were already leaving the regions east of the Elbe ).
            The exploitation of the east would ruin Germany :
            people would only buy grain/meat from the east if it was cheaper than the domestic grain/meat and if it was so, it would ruin farmers in Germany . But it could only be cheaper if it was subsidised by the German tax-payer.Besides, domestic agriculture could feed the German population . Thus there was no need for grain/meat from the east .
            It was the same for the oil : synthetic oil production was sufficient for the German economy, there was no need for the Caucasian oil and if the economy would buy the Caucasian oil, it would not buy the synthetic oil .
            And war could not be avoided : Germany had no intention to accept the existence of a sovereign Poliosh state .
            If there was no war with the USSR ,but the war in the west was won ,Germany would still be saddled up with the task to occupy western Europe AND to defend its border with the SU , a task Germany could not afford .
            And even if there was no war with Poland and the West, the German economy would still collaps,as sooner or later someone had to pay the rearmament bill .
            Between 1933 and 1938 Germany spent 49 billion of Marks for rearmament,= 9.5 % of the GNP and 12.2 % of National Income .The Debt increased during that period from 12,9 billion RM to 31,5 billion RM.
            Someone had to pay for this . To produce more, Germany had to export more,to sell more . But who outside Germany was rich enough to buy more German products? The Depression was not over, not at all over in 1938 .If people outside Germany would not pay the bill, the Germans should do it . One can easily imagine the reactions .
            Hitler had the choice : autarchy or to join the world economy . His decision was : autarchy, which implied war . But autarchy would not make Germany rich . Even the SU suffered heavily from the depression . If autarchy was not helping the SU, it could not help Germany .
            Mittel Europa was an illusion and failed in WWI,the colonisation of the east was also an illusion : Hitler had read too many books from Karl May .
            The Wild West was colonised because there were millions of colonists willing to live in the Wild West. There were no millions of Germans willing to leave their home to live in Ukraine .

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            • #36
              I kind of made the above point when elaborating on the instinct for war. In keeping with other social animals the war instinct seems to not be related directly to resources so much as ingroup selection. If you think it absurd that the Greeks went to war with Troy over mating rights, if only mythologically, you are misunderstanding the warrior instinct. Protecting the "eggs" is an ancient and prevalent instinct in almost all social animals. You will find this to be especially true in religious or quasi religious societies such as Nazi Germany.
              We hunt the hunters

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              • #37
                Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                I kind of made the above point when elaborating on the instinct for war. In keeping with other social animals the war instinct seems to not be related directly to resources so much as ingroup selection. If you think it absurd that the Greeks went to war with Troy over mating rights, if only mythologically, you are misunderstanding the warrior instinct. Protecting the "eggs" is an ancient and prevalent instinct in almost all social animals. You will find this to be especially true in religious or quasi religious societies such as Nazi Germany.
                In Nazi Germany's case it was more about revenge than anything. Hitler, and the Nazi party leadership in general, thought they'd been wronged in one way or another. From Jews stealing German's money, to the Treaty of Versailles, to wanting back land that rightfully in their view belonged to Germans and Germany.
                Look at how Hitler handled France's defeat. He made the French sign the peace treaty in the same railcar used for the Versailles treaty then had it burned. Revenge complete.
                He didn't really want war with Britain because in his mind Britain hadn't grossly kicked Germany around. Sure, they fought in WW 1, but that was war. The British didn't take "German" land or territory (except for some half-forgotten overseas colonies that probably didn't even register with Hitler). France did. Poland and Czechoslovakia did. Austria was clearly part of Germany to him.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

                  I'm retired from a STEM career.
                  What the hell is that?
                  "Advances in technology tend to overwhelm me."

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                  • #39
                    Two posts from lodestar and lewinski removed for discussing staff actions.
                    Staff actions are not for discussion in the open forum.
                    Forum rules are clear and easy to understand. If you're not familiar with them, please acquaint yourself with them and if you have questions PM a staff member.
                    Staff do not discuss why certain members were banned.
                    That is between the members themselves and staff.
                    Please do not repeat this behaviour in future as ignoring requests from staff is something that can earn a ban.
                    Thank you
                    ACG Staff

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                    • #40
                      OK

                      ---------------------------

                      The Nazis produced 12,000 tons of NERVE GAS. Why did they not use it?



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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Slug View Post

                        What the hell is that?
                        Science, Technology, Engineering, Math and Medicine.

                        I detest them all and had to look up what it meant on the 'internet' (something else I loathe doing - as I pride myself on knowing everything worth knowing)
                        I ask you what on earth has Science, Technology, Engineering, Math and Medicine ever given to mankind?

                        Wolfhnd was a strange one. He had some interesting ideas but skating around thin ice indeed.

                        Regards
                        lodestar

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by lewinski View Post
                          OK

                          ---------------------------
                          Ok also.
                          I have been told before.
                          Regards
                          lodestar

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