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  • alt history 1880s pirate ship

    former USS Marion steam screw sloop, the masts were removed and steam engine upgraded to increase reliability, speed 13kts

    what i'm really curious about is if the weapons upgrades make the ship seem a bit too OP for a pirate. so here's the tenative upgraded armament list

    x1 BL Mk1 4" gun
    x2 12pdr (3") guns
    x2 47mm hotchkiss revolving cannon

    2" of armored plate covers the engine room, magazine, and captain's stateroom inside the ship
    Last edited by General_Jacke; 06 May 19, 20:00.
    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
    A man dies and leaves his name,
    A teacher dies and teaches death.
    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

  • #2
    Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
    former USS Marion steam screw sloop, the masts were removed and steam engine upgraded to increase reliability, speed 13kts

    what i'm really curious about is if the weapons upgrades make the ship seem a bit too OP for a pirate. so here's the tenative upgraded armament list

    x1 BL Mk1 4" gun
    x2 12pdr (3") guns
    x2 47mm hotchkiss revolving cannon

    2" of armored plate covers the engine room, magazine, and captain's stateroom inside the ship
    Is there a question here?

    Does she have a condenser and distillation plant?. Otherwise relying on steam alone her range is going to be very limited. Also what is the coal consumption of that engine? The need for bunkerage was a major limitation in the old steam navies and the ability to have coaling stations spread around the globe in the Empire a major factor in the RN's superiority in the 19th century. An all steam pirate would have a very limited sphere of action. German commerce raiders of WW1 became basically very limited after 1914 when the German colonies were occupied and the raider had to spend much of its time looking for coal.

    Why is there armour plate over the magazine? Standard practice was to locate the magazine below the waterline
    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

    Comment


    • #3
      Where would this "Pirate" sell his loot and then go ashore?

      Pruitt
      Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

      Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

      by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
        Where would this "Pirate" sell his loot and then go ashore?

        Pruitt
        And in the1880s what would that loot consist of? The days of Spanish treasure galleons had long gone and a ship of the type described would have little room for cargo or be able to carry much in the way orf prize crews.
        Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
        Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

        Comment


        • #5
          Look up the USS Wamponoag class. Same idea. Total fail.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wampanoag_(1864)

          The problem with the Wamponag class, beyond poor construction, was that they had little room for loot, poor endurance, terrible seakeeping, and were generally just lousy if very fast ships. They were like owning say a Ferrari. The reliability is terrible. They seat two and a piece of luggage-- maybe. Upkeep is outrageously expensive. The mileage is horrid. But, they do go fast when they are running and not in the shop for repairs...

          Comment


          • #6
            A pirate would not need that sort of armament. Unlike a commerce raider a pirate is not interested in sinking ships - no money in it. Nor is one wanting to engage in battle with proper warships - doubly unprofitable and very risky. Pirates would want the speed to outrun a warship but in general would try and avoid any sort of contact. The ship would need just enough armament to overwhelm a reluctant merchantman and in the 1880s merchantmen were in general unarmed apart from sufficient small arms to discourage boarders.

            Prepare to repel boarders
            How do you repel boarders?
            Stop changing the bed linen

            The Goon Show
            A sensible late 19th century pirate would want to look like another innocent merchantman right up to the point that she came alongside an unsuspecting prey and would need to be able to pass visual inspection by naval officials - having deck guns would be a dead give-away - see the pirate ship in the novel A High Wind in Jamaica by Richard Hughes
            Last edited by MarkV; 26 May 19, 05:54.
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MarkV View Post
              A pirate would not need that sort of armament. Unlike a commerce raider a pirate is not interested in sinking ships - no money in it. Nor is one wanting to engage in battle with proper warships - doubly unprofitable and very risky. Pirates would want the speed to outrun a warship but in general would try and avoid any sort of contact. The ship would need just enough armament to overwhelm a reluctant merchantman and in the 1880s merchantmen were in general unarmed apart from sufficient small arms to discourage boarders.



              A sensible late 19th century pirate would want to look like another innocent merchantman right up to the point that she came alongside an unsuspecting prey and would need to be able to pass visual inspection by naval officials - having deck guns would be a dead give-away - see the pirate ship in the novel A High Wind in Jamaica by Richard Hughes
              I figure during a second age of piracy the merchantmen might have chosen to arm themselves a bit better if going to troubled waters.



              thus some deck guns could be written off as protection.
              just like a dhow with a few AKs in modern day doesn’t necessarily mean pirate. Fishermen carry them a small protection from having their vessels stolen for use as motherships.
              Last edited by General_Jacke; 26 May 19, 22:41.
              the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

              A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
              A man dies and leaves his name,
              A teacher dies and teaches death.
              Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                And in the1880s what would that loot consist of? The days of Spanish treasure galleons had long gone and a ship of the type described would have little room for cargo or be able to carry much in the way orf prize crews.
                by and large everything and anything, especially necessities as just about the entire south is basically a failed state.

                every nook and cranny available would be used to carry whatever they could get, possibly even target ships themselves.

                Minimal prize crew would be needed if towed for example

                the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                A man dies and leaves his name,
                A teacher dies and teaches death.
                Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                  Where would this "Pirate" sell his loot and then go ashore?

                  Pruitt
                  They’re based out of vermillion bay LA, so they’d likely sell most of it in or around the new Iberia area.
                  the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                  A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                  A man dies and leaves his name,
                  A teacher dies and teaches death.
                  Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                    Is there a question here?

                    Does she have a condenser and distillation plant?. Otherwise relying on steam alone her range is going to be very limited. Also what is the coal consumption of that engine? The need for bunkerage was a major limitation in the old steam navies and the ability to have coaling stations spread around the globe in the Empire a major factor in the RN's superiority in the 19th century. An all steam pirate would have a very limited sphere of action. German commerce raiders of WW1 became basically very limited after 1914 when the German colonies were occupied and the raider had to spend much of its time looking for coal.

                    Why is there armour plate over the magazine? Standard practice was to locate the magazine below the waterline
                    If I’m not mistaken ammunition for guns at the time could do a lot more to get through the water just above the waterline than say the ammunition used at the time the ship was originally launched.
                    magazines have long been below the waterline and have long been armored as well.
                    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                    A man dies and leaves his name,
                    A teacher dies and teaches death.
                    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                      Look up the USS Wamponoag class. Same idea. Total fail.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wampanoag_(1864)

                      The problem with the Wamponag class, beyond poor construction, was that they had little room for loot, poor endurance, terrible seakeeping, and were generally just lousy if very fast ships. They were like owning say a Ferrari. The reliability is terrible. They seat two and a piece of luggage-- maybe. Upkeep is outrageously expensive. The mileage is horrid. But, they do go fast when they are running and not in the shop for repairs...
                      If I kept the armament but chose a larger vessel in the 200-250’ range would that appease that criticism?

                      it sounds like that ship had a few problems like wooden gears and a general radical design.
                      the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                      A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                      A man dies and leaves his name,
                      A teacher dies and teaches death.
                      Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Also it should be noted that this alternate history is all for a tabletop game as well.
                        the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                        A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                        A man dies and leaves his name,
                        A teacher dies and teaches death.
                        Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                          They’re based out of vermillion bay LA, so they’d likely sell most of it in or around the new Iberia area.
                          I used to work in Intracoastal City. There were about six Helicopter Transport Companies there. There are a huge number of Shrimp boats and pleasure boats that use Vermillion Bay, East and West Cote Blanche Bays! How are they doing to get to New Iberia? You could go to the Port of New Iberia, if you don't mind a Customs Inspection.

                          There is no place to sneak in and out of on the South Louisiana Coast after all the drug traffic started up. All the Helicopter traffic and Customs aircraft keep the area under observation.

                          Nice Try!

                          If you are talking late 19th Century, there are still some rivers and bayous in South Louisiana available. The main problem is what kind of cargo would be profitable enough to risk hanging.

                          Pruitt
                          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post

                            I used to work in Intracoastal City. There were about six Helicopter Transport Companies there. There are a huge number of Shrimp boats and pleasure boats that use Vermillion Bay, East and West Cote Blanche Bays! How are they doing to get to New Iberia? You could go to the Port of New Iberia, if you don't mind a Customs Inspection.

                            There is no place to sneak in and out of on the South Louisiana Coast after all the drug traffic started up. All the Helicopter traffic and Customs aircraft keep the area under observation.

                            Nice Try!

                            If you are talking late 19th Century, there are still some rivers and bayous in South Louisiana available. The main problem is what kind of cargo would be profitable enough to risk hanging.

                            Pruitt
                            Well the nearest functioning government is in Cuba, and being a broken state with a shattered economy and infrastructure all cargoes are valuable.
                            the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                            A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                            A man dies and leaves his name,
                            A teacher dies and teaches death.
                            Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by General_Jacke View Post
                              If I’m not mistaken ammunition for guns at the time could do a lot more to get through the water just above the waterline than say the ammunition used at the time the ship was originally launched.
                              magazines have long been below the waterline and have long been armored as well.
                              Originally much armour was intended to protect against plunging shot coming down through the deck and ships of that size if armoured at all had armoured decks rather than bulwarks
                              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

                              Comment

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