Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

How could Argentina have come out on top in the falklands or embarassed the RN?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • How could Argentina have come out on top in the falklands or embarassed the RN?

    What would a scenario like that look like?

    i believe it was the naval power forum someone brought up an Argentinean sub that had wonky torpedoes that could have scored several kills had the torpedoes been working properly.

    would those sinkings/cripplings of RN vessels been enough on their own to have forced the RN and brits away from the islands? what else likely would have had to occur if that wasn't enough?
    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
    A man dies and leaves his name,
    A teacher dies and teaches death.
    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

  • #2
    1) Faulty bomb fusing. All those hits and virtually all of them turned out to be duds.

    2) Instead of posting conscripts to the Malvinas, the professional soldiers such as the well trained mountain troops could have been sent.

    3) Poor communications security. The Argentines should have known or expected that their communications were penetrated.
    ScenShare Guidelines:

    1) Enjoy creating it
    2) Enjoy playing it
    3) Enjoy sharing it
    4) Enjoy helping others create them

    The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

    FAQ http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/Fr...dQuestions.htm

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
      1) Faulty bomb fusing. All those hits and virtually all of them turned out to be duds.

      2) Instead of posting conscripts to the Malvinas, the professional soldiers such as the well trained mountain troops could have been sent.

      3) Poor communications security. The Argentines should have known or expected that their communications were penetrated.
      1. They needed French expertise for the fusing but were unwilling/hadn't the FX to pay for it
      2. The Junta didn't post the professionals because they were the only ones they could trust to keep them in power at home
      3. Whether or not they expected it they didn't have the technology to stop it, especially since the US was providing the British with access to their monitoring
      The whole thing was a ramshackle attempt to prop up a failing regime with a victorious conquest and it depended on the British rolling over and not responding other than some spluttering in the UN.
      Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
      Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

      Comment


      • #4
        If they would have bought more Super Etendardes, Exocets and a few aerial tankers, they could have done better. An Exocet hit that did not explode was enough to burn the aluminum superstructure of several RN ships. The Mountain troops were in the Andes facing down Chilean Army troops. They should have sent the Mountain troops to the Falklands.

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          They needed French expertise for the fusing but were unwilling/hadn't the FX to pay for it
          The bombs were simple iron bombs dating back to WW2. They were nothing fancy and did not need intricate fusing. If the Argentines had been reliant on French expertise, they could easily have found alternative ordnance technology and assistance from around the world for simple contact (or slight delay) fuses. There were plenty of professionals willing to sell such basic knowledge and probably enough within the Argentine forces to preclude any outside assistance.

          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          The Junta didn't post the professionals because they were the only ones they could trust to keep them in power at home
          That certainly was the reason I have seen elsewhere, but this thread is what could have been changed. Also, had the professionals been posted to Las Malvinas and given a good accounting of themselves, the victory could have kept the junta in power even longer. The junta simply were unwilling to roll the dice.

          Originally posted by MarkV View Post
          Whether or not they expected it they didn't have the technology to stop it, especially since the US was providing the British with access to their monitoring
          Even if they did not have the technology to stop it, they could have taken measures to minimize the detriment. Instead, the Argentines operated as though their communications were secure. Had they operated with full expectation of their communications being revealed to their opponents, they could have restricted themselves to single-pad one-time codes or human couriers. They would certainly have been hindered, but at least they could work within that expectation.
          ScenShare Guidelines:

          1) Enjoy creating it
          2) Enjoy playing it
          3) Enjoy sharing it
          4) Enjoy helping others create them

          The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

          FAQ http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/Fr...dQuestions.htm

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
            If they would have bought more Super Etendardes, Exocets and a few aerial tankers, they could have done better. An Exocet hit that did not explode was enough to burn the aluminum superstructure of several RN ships. The Mountain troops were in the Andes facing down Chilean Army troops. They should have sent the Mountain troops to the Falklands.

            Pruitt
            See my earlier post

            The fusing problem was mainly on the Exocets

            They didn't have the money to buy extra kit from the French and they needed the reliable troops at home to keep them in power. The Exocet hit did not burn the aluminium - the unexpended fuel in the missile started an internal fire on one ship

            The big problem with the Exocets for the British was the stupid logic used in the Marconi written software for target acquisition. This meant that the British missiles gave priority to the larger blips which were the Super Etendardes which had already launched the Exocets. I later had the misfortune to work with the D*** head responsible
            Last edited by MarkV; 27 Apr 19, 19:17.
            Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
            Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
              If they would have bought more Super Etendardes, Exocets and a few aerial tankers
              I think that the Argentines did have a nominal (rudimentary) air-to-air refueling capability, but it was very limited.
              ScenShare Guidelines:

              1) Enjoy creating it
              2) Enjoy playing it
              3) Enjoy sharing it
              4) Enjoy helping others create them

              The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

              FAQ http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/Fr...dQuestions.htm

              Comment


              • #8
                They should have waited something like 3 months to do it. Britain was about to make major defense cuts, particularly in the RN. With Hermes and the LST's and LPD's being cut up, it would have been far, far more difficult for Britain to mount a successful invasion.

                At the same time, the Argentines should have prepared from the start with the idea that a British counter stroke would occur. They could easily made a deal with somebody to get a few batteries of long ranged artillery of about 120 to 150mm in size that could go to the Falklands and be emplaced as coast artillery guns. That's relatively cheap to do.
                For example, the Argentines buy say 30 M46 130mm guns from the Russians or Chinese. These guns can shoot to nearly 20 miles meaning if emplaced to cover likely British anchorages, they can simply shell the RN ships and either sink or force them to leave while being in hardened positions makes them difficult targets to take out. The RN has little with them to deal with such a problem, particularly if their aircraft have to deal with SAM and AA gun coverage of the positions.

                Buy some SAMs from somebody also. For example, if there was a battery of these in some decent model on the island, the Vulcan bomber raids likely couldn't have been run. The risk for such an old and very large radar target flying over the island to bomb it all alone would make it a very vulnerable target.

                SAMs also would make air operations, particularly helicopter operations, very dangerous to do inside their envelope of fire.

                Send a couple of merchant ships loaded with supplies for the garrison to make a siege something they can sit out. Also send with this a large amount of construction equipment and materials to build bunkers, dig trenches, improve the airfield, etc., such that the Argentines can now operate their air force out of Stanley, have their field forces dug into reinforced supporting positions, and have things like the aforementioned artillery almost retaliation proof.

                All the Argentines have to do is make a landing difficult or impossible to do with the existing (reduced) RN fleet. The longer they retain control, the greater the chances become the British simply have to accept a diplomatic solution.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Scenario: Argentina upgraded maintenance of equipment plus better training of troops
                  United Kingdom leadership options (another Admiral than Woodward?)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the Argentinian Navy should have bought some US type aerial tankers and had the Naval aircraft practice in flight refueling. I am thinking that the Argentine air tankers (KC130?) did not train with the Navy. They all flew out of air bases anyway. I would have had them taking off and rendezvousing on a longer flight path to refuel with several air tankers. Fuel shortages meant the Argies had to get there, shoot and always followed a similar route to get there. I would have also had them fire on any helicopters seen. The RN had to convert several ASW choppers to carry radar which extended the radar range.

                    Maintenance woes meant the Argie German built Frigates could not sail. I read somewhere that the San Juan could not stay at sea, either.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The AEW Sea Kings weren't operational until after the war was over.
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westla..._early_warning

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                        The AEW Sea Kings weren't operational until after the war was over.
                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westla..._early_warning
                        Look at the quoted article under the section, "Falklands War". It says even Prince Andrew flew one.

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                          Look at the quoted article under the section, "Falklands War". It says even Prince Andrew flew one.
                          In the theatre, they performed a wide range of missions, from anti-submarine patrols and reconnaissance flights to replenishment operations and the insertion of special forces.[33] Support provided by the Sea Kings in the form of transport for men and supplies has been viewed as vital to the success of the British operation.[34] Sea Kings also protected the fleet by acting as decoys against incoming Exocet missiles, with some missions being flown by Prince Andrew, Duke of York.[35]
                          There is no mention of any AEW mission, even those flown by Prince Andrew. Instead, the "Airborne early warning" section of the article notes:

                          During the Falklands War, a number of warships were lost and casualties suffered due to the lack of an AEW platform.[27]
                          ScenShare Guidelines:

                          1) Enjoy creating it
                          2) Enjoy playing it
                          3) Enjoy sharing it
                          4) Enjoy helping others create them

                          The PlayersDB - The Harpoon Community's #1 Choice.

                          FAQ http://www.harplonkhq.com/Harpoon/Fr...dQuestions.htm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            thinking back argentina could have never likely won. if the brits failed on their own they'd have likely called up the US on their NATO obligations.


                            but it seems that the brits were very lucky to have retained the falklands. good thing dictators tend to be incompetent when it comes to war as well as everything else.
                            the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

                            A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
                            A man dies and leaves his name,
                            A teacher dies and teaches death.
                            Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The Argentinians refused to accept the return of their dead so they remain buried in the Falklands. A symbolic gesture worthy of Bismark?

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X