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A question about the Austro-Hungarian Empire

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  • A question about the Austro-Hungarian Empire

    So, let us say that that WW1 is ended in a negotiated peace; after the fall of Imperial Russia a peace treaty is hammered out returning everyone in the West to the 1914 borders while Central Powers get client (buffer) states in Poland, the Ukraine, and the Caucasus.

    How long would the Austro-Hungarian Empire last after such an event, do you think?The new Emperor was a forward thinker.
    Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

  • #2
    It's an interesting proposition.
    Ironically the unfortunate Archduke Franz Ferdinand was also quite a progressive. I suppose Czechoslovakia world also opt for independence if the opportunity presented itself.
    "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
    Samuel Johnson.

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    • #3
      It wouldn't last long. It was disintegrating from within. The Slavs wanted to be free of the AHE and the Austrians and Hungarians were always arguing over who was really in command.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by johns624 View Post
        It wouldn't last long. It was disintegrating from within. The Slavs wanted to be free of the AHE and the Austrians and Hungarians were always arguing over who was really in command.
        in
        My impression was the Hungarians were second class in the empire, with the Austrians being 1st class and all the other ethnic groups in the empire being third class.
        "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
        Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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        • #5
          I figured it would fold up, but the question how long that would take if peace broke out.

          Ten years? Fifteen? Being on the 'winning' side and having a civil war next door ought to slow down the inevitable a bit, I would think.
          Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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          • #6
            Actually the A-H Empire was divided into two halves with the Germans controlling Austria, Bohemia, Galicia, Tyrol and I believe Slovenia. The Kingdom of Hungary controlled Transylvania, Slovakia, Banat, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzogovina. I don't see Poland getting the same boundaries as what happened RL after WWI. I don't see a Polish Corridor. I see Hungary controlling Transylvania. Romania may have settled for Moldavia. Serbia would be an issue.

            I think there are too many disputes in the way of peace lasting more than ten years.

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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            • #7
              Hungary was already on the verge of a communist revolution and civil war. The Czechs were straining for independence and with two large and experienced Czech legions in existence and the Czechs in possession of most of the KuK's armaments industry I cannot see that they would meekly have submitted to remaining in the KuK. The movement for a pan slavic state in the Balkans was already up and running. The declaration of peace would have been the starting gun for conflict in all three at the very least as was the actual armistice. The whole crazy structure wouldn't have lasted more than a couple of years at best
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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              • #8
                In the A-H Empire and Kingdom the Kaiser was hugely respected, the Army was loyal, there was the rule of law, democracy, freedom, religious and minority tolerance, it was a single-market of 50 million people and pre-war the economy had been growing fast.

                The big fly in the ointment is Hungary, however, and in particular their policy of Magyarization. Hungary was probably the only nation that could command enough military power to break away from the Empire by itself.

                Other than that I don't see how the Empire could fail absent another big war or the emergence of a proto-European Union.

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                • #9
                  De facto before Sarajevo , AH did no longer exist as Hungary was in reality an independent state but did not secede because of the Russian threat .If the Russian threat was gone, Hungary would no longer wait to proclaim its independence .

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                    In the A-H Empire and Kingdom the Kaiser was hugely respected, the Army was loyal, .
                    Karl i ("Karl the first and last") was respected by a limited number. Many considered him weak. Many of the army high command were very unhappy. Come the armistice the Hungarians refuse to recognise him as King.

                    Please give your sources. (and not the Vatican who decades later beatified him)
                    Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
                    Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MarkV View Post

                      Karl i ("Karl the first and last") was respected by a limited number. Many considered him weak. Many of the army high command were very unhappy. Come the armistice the Hungarians refuse to recognise him as King.

                      Please give your sources. (and not the Vatican who decades later beatified him)

                      Should have specified the monarchy as institution. As it was Karl IV was crowned King of Hungary in December 1916. In 1920 the Hungarian Parliament reestablished the monarchy - Admiral Horthy was merely Regent.

                      Despite everything in 1918 the Empire and the Habsburgs probably would have survived as had its survival not been specifically forbidden by the victorious powers. The centripetal forces were stronger than the centrifugal ones.

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