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what if the Cuban Missile Crisis got violent?

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  • what if the Cuban Missile Crisis got violent?

    do you think we'd be here now online talking about 'what tank is this' or what war reenactments we like and where they are. or do you think that would have put a major stop on the US?

    i think we would have started to beat cuba, while still taking lots and lots of damage to our own soil, but before we could finish them i think that russia would have stepped in to hand our asses to us while we focused on the tiny little island.

    (im sure that this has been talked about already)
    the answer is on the floor- john roseberry

    A tiger dies and leaves his fur,
    A man dies and leaves his name,
    A teacher dies and teaches death.
    Seikchi Toguchi 1917-1998

  • #2
    History is repeting it self?

    I think that rocket shield witch is planned on Polish territory is something like soviet SS-series missiles on cuba 40 years ago.

    Historicaly it is nown as Troian Horse.

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    • #3
      Had it gotten violent, you and I wouldn't be here.

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      • #4
        well, had it gone violent (thank you JFK!)

        we'd have 100+ million dead in both the USA and the USSR.

        europe would be also quite radioactive, with Soviet troops advancing well to the Rhine and then dropping dead from internal bleeding and other nasty radiation effects.

        Western Civilisation ends right there, as people from africa, south america and Asia drop in civil strike and turmoil, with massive starvation, etc. possibly a nuclear winter?

        in the end, China, spared from most strikes, conquers the world.

        so no change in the long run from our real history!!
        "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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        • #5
          ouch!

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          • #6
            This what if was closer than originally known. Since the delcassification and international symposiums by participating countries, it was learned a Soviet sub almost fired a nuclear tipped torpedo. Apparently, the Soviet sub was under the US blockade ships and a destroyed dropped depth charges against the sub. The sub commander wanted to fire the torpedoes, by Soviet protocol it required a unanimous vote of the three senior officers, two voted to fire, the third said no, lets check first with Moscow.

            rna
            Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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            • #7
              It would have depended on how far the senior leadership in both countries were willing to let it escalate. Both countries military had leadership checks to stop rapid escalation. If they had failed the damage would have been horrible.

              It is important to remember however that the leadership of both sides was not suicidal, I do not think they would allowed even the destruction of a US destroyer or soviet sub to cause WW III.

              Finally better computer models have shown that a nuclear war using all the US/Russian warheads even in the late 60's/early 70's when there was many more than during the Cuban Missile Crisis are not enough to cause a "nuclear winter". Conditions would be horrible but nuclear winter can be ruled out.
              FoxNEWS "The World is unfair and we are running scared"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by R.N. Armstrong View Post
                This what if was closer than originally known. Since the delcassification and international symposiums by participating countries, it was learned a Soviet sub almost fired a nuclear tipped torpedo. Apparently, the Soviet sub was under the US blockade ships and a destroyed dropped depth charges against the sub. The sub commander wanted to fire the torpedoes, by Soviet protocol it required a unanimous vote of the three senior officers, two voted to fire, the third said no, lets check first with Moscow.
                This third senior sub officer then should be on a par with Lt. Colonel Stanislav Petrov who in September 1983 while on duty in the Soviet main nuclear command bunker relied on his intuition that something had caused a false nuclear alarm. He went against his orders, stalled the fire order, called the Kremlin and managed to confirm them as well that it was false alarm and so averted a nuclear exchange. Later it appeared there had been some malfunctioning equipment.

                Petrov received years after the event an UN Award for his highly audacious and cool action
                and was honored as the “Man Who Averted Nuclear War” (his career in the Soviet armed forces BTW was broken).

                We discussed this unsung hero earlier in the Cold War forum/Broken Arrow thread.

                Reading RNA's post, I can imagine we need to issue such a UN Award again.
                BoRG

                You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by captainsennef View Post
                  This third senior sub officer then should be on a par with Lt. Colonel Stanislav Petrov who in September 1983 while on duty in the Soviet main nuclear command bunker relied on his intuition that something had caused a false nuclear alarm. He went against his orders, stalled the fire order, called the Kremlin and managed to confirm them as well that it was false alarm and so averted a nuclear exchange. Later it appeared there had been some malfunctioning equipment.

                  Petrov received years after the event an UN Award for his highly audacious and cool action
                  and was honored as the “Man Who Averted Nuclear War” (his career in the Soviet armed forces BTW was broken).

                  We discussed this unsung hero earlier in the Cold War forum/Broken Arrow thread.

                  Reading RNA's post, I can imagine we need to issue such a UN Award again.
                  The name for posterity is Second Captain Vasili Archipov who calmed down the Captain, Valentin Savitsky.

                  Petrov was an interesting case. He was interrogated, reprimanded by his commander, was charged with improper filing of documents, moved to a less responsible position and took/forced into early retirement, and I heard had a nervous breakdown. Only subsequently had he received acclaim for his decision.

                  rna
                  Leadership is the ability to rise above conventional wisdom.

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                  • #10
                    Here's another interesting incident: During the Cuban Missile Crises, the Strategic Air Command dispersed its fleet of B-47 and B-52 Bombers at secondary airfields throughout the Continental US to prevent them from being caught on the ground should a surprise Soviet airstrike take place. These were usually National Guard airfields. The Bomber Crews were on a 24/7 stand-by status and under orders that should a "Scramble Alert" go out from the local airbase commander, that they were to take off and procede to their targets and that no call back orders would be listened to. This meant that every airfield was under its own governance.

                    One night, at an airfield in Northern Minnesota, the alert went out that there were sappers in the airfield's wire fence. The air crews fired up their B-47 Bombers and began taxiing for an emergency take off, not knowing that the base's security detail had found out that the "sappers" were in reality, several black bears trying to get into the air base garbage dump.

                    Knowing that there would be no call back orders heeded, the Base Commander jumped into a jeep and drove directly onto the airfield, frantically flashing his flashlight, trying to get the bombers to halt before they became airborne. He was successful in stopping the bombers from taking off, thus preventing WW III from occurring.
                    Last edited by johnbryan; 27 Apr 08, 16:01.
                    "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                    • #11
                      The Canadian military went to full alert and issued recalls on it own without civilian approval. Some think unification was imposed on the Canadian Military because of that act.
                      FoxNEWS "The World is unfair and we are running scared"

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PatBC View Post
                        The Canadian military went to full alert and issued recalls on it own without civilian approval. Some think unification was imposed on the Canadian Military because of that act.
                        I heard that the Canadian Navy sortied its considerably large sized fleet, at the time, to avoid being caught in harbour. This was done without official orders from the government. I'm sure that Prime Minister John Diefenbaker was not pleased by this.
                        "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                        • #13
                          What's noticeable from the above mentioned 'close calls' is that the military and politicians should not be trusted with the kind of weaponry that can obliterate entire continents.
                          Signing out.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                            What's noticeable from the above mentioned 'close calls' is that the military and politicians should not be trusted with the kind of weaponry that can obliterate entire continents.
                            That's probably why the Strategic Air Command never again dispersed its bombers so far away from a Central Command Authority. I'm sure that after reading the report of that nocturnal, "less than Soviet Bear Alert", the old "pucker-factor" really kicked-in and the light of wisdom shined its beams upon General LeMay and the other SAC people.
                            "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
                              That's probably why the Strategic Air Command never again dispersed its bombers so far away from a Central Command Authority. I'm sure that after reading the report of that nocturnal, "less than Soviet Bear Alert", the old "pucker-factor" really kicked-in and the light of wisdom shined its beams upon General LeMay and the other SAC people.
                              Hmmmm, I seem to remember several close calls during the Ray-gun era although for different reasons from the above. Too many itchy fingers too close to the button for comfort.
                              Signing out.

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