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What if America focused on The Japanese first?

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  • What if America focused on The Japanese first?

    If America had focused on the Japanese first what would of happened in the pacific theater? What would have happened in the European theater? would Germany have gotten stronger or forced England to surrender?

  • #2
    A few more men & aircraft used in the attrition battles in the South Pacific in 1942. That is the battles in the Solomons and New Guinea. A acceleration of a few months of the overall sucess. The 1944 offensive against Japans Pacific defenses depended on the large fleet of aircraft carriers that would not be available until 1944. A decision to conentrate on the Pacific cant provide those signficantly faster.

    MacAurthurs attack in the South Pacific can progress a little faster, but its tougher without the flexible and massive air support of the carriers. Substituing more land based air runs into the problem of the time required to build more airbases.

    Under several different officers (Ike was one of these) the War Plans Divsion made repeated analysis during 1940, 41, & 1942, of the several options. One thing that was consistently identified in these studies was that suffcient heavy capitol ships would not be available for decsive offensive operations until late 1943 or 44.

    There still would have been enough transports and escourts to send US ground and airforces to Britian and Africa to reinforce Britian in 1942. Attacking the French colonys in Africa would have been passed over.
    Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 11 Feb 08, 20:18.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by GA_Thrawn35 View Post
      If America had focused on the Japanese first what would of happened in the pacific theater? What would have happened in the European theater? would Germany have gotten stronger or forced England to surrender?
      Highly unlikely if Germany couldn't do it in 1940 there was no way they were going to knock out England in 1942, let alone when they were so heavily involved in Russia.

      Possible tho that the first Atom Bomb may have been dropped on Berlin.

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      • #4
        I've always had a slight suspicion that they wouldnt have used the bomb in Europe, not sure why, just a hunch. The war in Europe certainly would have gone on longer allowing the Russians to end up in France if the Alies in the west were denied the manpower to launch overlord and the ops in Italy and Africa

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        • #5
          The atom bomb was originally a British project. They begain assemblying the talent as early as 1940 and were planning and and making preliminary steps for production of the necessaary isotopes in Cananda in 1941. Refining the Uraniium into the necessary isotopes required a huge industrial plant and I suspect it would have taken Britian a year or two longer without the resources of the US. And the British would probablly not have hesitated to use it.

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          • #6
            Red Army Liberates Paris!

            Originally posted by GA_Thrawn35 View Post
            If America had focused on the Japanese first what would of happened in the pacific theater? What would have happened in the European theater? would Germany have gotten stronger or forced England to surrender?
            With Army resources/leadership dedicated first to the Pacific, it would have actually have taken the US longer to position itself for eventual use of the Atomic Bomb. You have to remember, rightly or wrongly, the Army was the "A" team, not the Navy. I agree that the Navy had an intuitive grasp of island warfare; however it just would have taken Army Leadership longer to develop/prosecute the strategy/tactics necessary to approximate the Navy's success.
            Given this additional time Japan could have sued for peace... when a lend-lease enabled Red Army (as the US surrogate) conducts a '43 / '44 Zhukovian bull rush into the heart of Europe. A true Eurasian Co-prosperity League might have been the result.
            Principles and rules are intended to provide a thinking man with a frame of reference. - Karl von Clauswitz, Vom Kriege, 1832.
            "Quality posts have a Quantity of value all their own." PH

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            • #7
              Yes I think we may well have used it as a last ditch weapon to defend ourselves but Im not sure it would have been used to finish Germany off as with Japan. Germany was easier to invade than Japan was going to be along with those projected casualties that operaion olympic was going to take.This fact made the use of the bomb much more likely. Obviously we'll never know but its just a hunch like I said.

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              • #8
                If the war had been drawn out than Germany would have been able to employ it's wonder weapons in force.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                  The atom bomb was originally a British project. They begain assemblying the talent as early as 1940 and were planning and and making preliminary steps for production of the necessaary isotopes in Cananda in 1941. Refining the Uraniium into the necessary isotopes required a huge industrial plant and I suspect it would have taken Britian a year or two longer without the resources of the US. And the British would probablly not have hesitated to use it.
                  Having read Richard Rhodes' excellent book The Making of the Atomic Bomb several times, my conclusion is that Britain simply didn't the industrial capacity to make the bomb even had they had the same personnel available (many of the atomic bomb scientists were physicists who had fled the Nazis to America). The Manhattan Project had intellectual resources (and industrial capacity) that have never been equaled.

                  Neither the Nazis nor the Japanese were even close to developing an atomic bomb, although the Nazis might have been able to create a radiological weapon ("dirty bomb") by '1944 or '45. The Japanese effort had such a low military priority it was headed by a mere lieutenant colonel.\

                  IMO if the Nazis had somehow held out until August '45 the Allies wouldn't have hesitated to drop the first nuke on Berlin.
                  Go is to chess as philosophy is to double-entry bookkeeping. - Nicholaï Hel in Shibumi

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                  • #10
                    Any delay in the build up of US forces in Europe just pushes the Russian/Western allied meet up line further west.

                    However given the lead time requirement of carriers, Germany first was the only viable option for the US.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
                      Any delay in the build up of US forces in Europe just pushes the Russian/Western allied meet up line further west.

                      However given the lead time requirement of carriers, Germany first was the only viable option for the US.
                      Actually much of the Navy brass favored virtually ignoring
                      Europe beyond keeping the Atlantic sea lanes to Britain opened. They saw the Brits as only interested in preserving their Empire and no real interest in liberating Europe. Admiral King and others actually threatened in '43 to move all US amphibious capacity to the pacific making any significant action in Europe impossible. Roosevelt of course shut him down on that. The US Navy still had not forgiven the British for the Japanese alliance in the early part of the century and the British support of Japan getting the German Pacific holdings and also for the German-British Naval treaty.

                      They were infuriated by the Churchill proposal to invade the Balkans rather than France. At that point, Roosevelt had to either insist on France or fire his entire senior naval staff.

                      In the end, I do agree any delay beyond 44 in invading France would have simply meant the iron curtain was on the western border of Germany.
                      Boston Strong!

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                      • #12
                        Pacific goes slightly faster with more men available, Red Army goes all the way to Berlin, and then they duke it out with any remaining Germans. I don't think they would have gone farther, as then the Germans would have fled France to defend Germany or already be there, and Russia wouldn't really have any reason to invade France, since I haven't seen anything from either of them really denoting hate for each other. They'd have taken over all of Germany though, and if they had the whole thing, they'd have likely held on to it.

                        The USSR might still be around, since they'd have captured the German nuke plans. Hell, they may have dropped one on London and demanded a surrender from the anti-USSR Churchill. And then that'd a whole nother can of worms.
                        http://chickencrap.com/images/1472.jpg

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rynnäkkökivääri View Post

                          The USSR might still be around, since they'd have captured the German nuke plans. Hell, they may have dropped one on London and demanded a surrender from the anti-USSR Churchill. And then that'd a whole nother can of worms.
                          I'll have to check, but I think the USSR had already obtained the US atomic bomb secrets through its spies. Also the German nuclear weapon research is susposed to have been nearly useless. The head of the project Dr Hiesenberg apparently miscalculated many factors either by intent or error.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
                            I'll have to check, but I think the USSR had already obtained the US atomic bomb secrets through its spies. Also the German nuclear weapon research is susposed to have been nearly useless. The head of the project Dr Hiesenberg apparently miscalculated many factors either by intent or error.
                            Really? Well whatever the case with the nukes, they'd have gotten the V-1 and V-2 plans, which means they would have had a good advantage in space. And even without the nukes, they'd have gotten all of Germany, and pretty much all of Europe. NATO may have very well never formed.
                            http://chickencrap.com/images/1472.jpg

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                            • #15
                              They did get V1 and V2 plans plus a lot of jet technology plus many engineers. Their rocket research after the war was more advanced for a time.
                              Last edited by copenhagen; 14 Feb 08, 05:23.

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