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What If the StuG III was an APC?

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  • peter_sym
    replied
    The short answer is 'the Germans would be even more desperate for tanks and assault guns'.

    We had the manufacturing capacity to be able to afford to turn tank chassis into infantry carriers. The Germans didn't.

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  • llkinak
    replied
    They needed the stugs to carry anti-tank guns, not troops.

    Besides, they had halftracks to carry troops which did pretty much the same thing except they had greater capacity, and were less expensive.

    No APC is really well suited to stand up to enemy tanks. The troops it carries usually exit at least 500 meters from any expected serious oposition unless escorting tanks can overrun it, in which case they usually stay inside and follow the tanks.

    At any rate, I don't think the numbers discussed in the opening would have been enough to make any real difference in the grand scheme of things.

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  • Alan Hamilton
    replied
    I'm a bit late in getting here but found the thread when browsing for something else.

    There was a production APC on the Pz38(t) chassis though not a German one - the Swedish Pbv 301 which was based on the Stridsvagn m/41 license produced TNHP.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pbv_301

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  • webmill2203524
    replied
    Interestingly,although the Pz IV chassis was far to valuable to adapt for the Vorpanzer APC of this What IF discussion,at any time during the war,
    the Germans did have available captured early T-34 76mm tanks starting in the summer of 1941 (see Achtungpanzer files captured Russian tanks);
    Since this is a What IF, why not adapt some of these captured T-34s into a German version of a Kangaroo APC; the T-34 had excellent mobility for this role, particulary in the winter and snow.

    Later in 1943 at the "SS Panzerwerk" repair shop (at Kharkov some T-34s had Shuerzen added

    However, captured T-34s had a list of priorities in conversion use; starting with the FlaKPanzer (t-34r) with quad 20mm AA guns;next were artillery tractors and ammo carriers, and finally for the SS Pz Divs, a platoon or so of T-34s for expendable tanks;although once German tankers scored 29 kills in a Captured T-34 according to German reports.
    A "Kangaroo" APC adaption would seem to be last in this list;
    Last edited by webmill2203524; 30 May 08, 03:45.

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  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Well I'll be damned... there it is.

    Sure looks like a modified TnHp chassis to me!

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  • Hida Akechi
    replied
    *shudders*

    Open top APCs just don't do it for me.

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  • Listy
    replied
    Originally posted by Achtung baby View Post
    That's beginning to look allot like a modern APC, and not to far off an IFV.

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  • Achtung Baby
    replied
    Kätzchen, prototype APC vehicle

    Originally posted by Listy View Post
    Weren't the Germans about to finish development of a new fully tracked APC which looked like a Hetzer?

    A Stug with skirts is an almost APC, with a load of grenadiers on the rear deck.
    Type : Armored Personnel Carrier
    Length : 4.22m (13.9 ft)
    Width : 2.34m (7.7 ft)
    Height : 1.45m (4.8 ft)
    Engine : Maybach HL50
    Armament : 1 or 2 7.92mm MG42 Machine Gun




    Leave a comment:


  • Redwolf
    replied
    What if?

    They'd have an even worse shortage of fuel.

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  • the_redstar_swl
    replied
    Originally posted by Listy View Post
    Weren't the Germans about to finish development of a new fully tracked APC which looked like a Hetzer?

    A Stug with skirts is an almost APC, with a load of grenadiers on the rear deck.
    I recall hearing about a prototype called the "Kätzchen" which was based off the 38(t), It was supposed to have been able to carry 6-7 soldiers in a open topped rear compartment.

    IIRC they made two around 34-44 and then abandoned the project.

    Leave a comment:


  • Listy
    replied
    Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
    The Hetzer was too small to be utilized as an APC. No room in the fighting compartment for any extras.~
    Weren't the Germans about to finish development of a new fully tracked APC which looked like a Hetzer?

    A Stug with skirts is an almost APC, with a load of grenadiers on the rear deck.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnbryan
    replied
    Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
    The Stug Didnt have enough room, and was too useful in it's function as was.

    Now, the Hetzer might have been a good APC, with the engine up front. They even had a remote-control MG on top, something that the guys with M-113s in Nam wish they'd had.
    The Hetzer was too small to be utilized as an APC. No room in the fighting compartment for any extras.~

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  • The Exorcist
    replied
    The Stug Didnt have enough room, and was too useful in it's function as was.

    Now, the Hetzer might have been a good APC, with the engine up front. They even had a remote-control MG on top, something that the guys with M-113s in Nam wish they'd had.

    Leave a comment:


  • Listy
    replied
    Originally posted by webmill2203524 View Post
    Reply to Listy:

    Yes, thats correct, of course;

    I was using the term Sherman chassis loosely; as the Kangaroo APC with its RAM chassis was based in turn on the US M3 Lee chassis; and the Priest SPG was either a RAM or Sherman chassis

    The Churchill Kangaroo is very interesting...any photos?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...garoo_tank.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • webmill2203524
    replied
    Reply to Listy:

    Yes, thats correct, of course;

    I was using the term Sherman chassis loosely; as the Kangaroo APC with its RAM chassis was based in turn on the US M3 Lee chassis; and the Priest SPG was either a RAM or Sherman chassis

    The Churchill Kangaroo is very interesting...any photos?
    Last edited by webmill2203524; 17 Dec 07, 20:14.

    Leave a comment:

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