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What the hell is wrong with (Some) Americans?

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  • What the hell is wrong with (Some) Americans?

    I'm putting it here as it is somewhat "alternate history", although it could have gone in several other forums.

    I was doing some research on the Waco Siege and went looking for the news footage on Youtube, where I just found a load of crap, either Walts Bigging up the ATF storming the place, Normal sticking the bit on the roof to a piece of music. Or worse alternate history types saying Korresh was a jolly nice chap and the ATF murdered him for some unspecified reason.

    Hell here's a classic:


    What the wibble-head commentator fails to spot is that the "Stairwell" is in a single story part of the building, add in the fact that a M728 CEV doesn't have a flame thrower.

    Edit: Ooops, In Rant mode i forgot to ask "so why do some US citizens seem to think everything the government do is secret and scary and one big conspiracy theory?"
    Last edited by Listy; 29 Nov 07, 21:05.
    Winnie says
    ---------------------------------
    "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

    It was an Accident."
    Herr Flick.

  • #2
    Wow, that is so true. I had the honor to assist in the recovery effort at Staten Island and Ground Zero as a forensic science intern. I later had a crazy debate with a 9/11 conspiracy theorist who believed it was all an inside job. While there was some interesting theory behind his beliefs - squibs bringing down both towers, vast Zionist conspiracy, US missile striking the Pentagon, Islamic extremist aboard the aircraft were planted by US gov't - they didn't hold up to scrutiny. His answer to every rebuttal was, "the government altered the evidence."

    How can you even negotiate with such fanaticism?
    TTFN

    Comment


    • #3
      Roswell and the JFK assasination have a lot to answer for in these respects. I think films and books with there out there plots make some people want to believe similar things are happening in real life.

      Comment


      • #4
        Well Roswell & 9/11 are amusing, in the sense of conspiracy. I'm still not satisfied with the JFK story.

        HP
        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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        • #5
          I saw a documentary where the compound was stormed by using automatic weapons and chemical agents, the gas was nasty stuff indeed! They found bodies deformed from the effects of these gases, it made the muscles react violently, with such force that some people were highly disfigured.
          "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
          Ernest Hemingway.

          "The more I learn about people, The more I love my dog".
          Mark Twain.

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          • #6
            I was in bed recovering from food poisoning on the day of the assault of the compound. I watched the ATF guys getting shot and the house go up in flames so obviously from somewhere other than the CEV.

            A number of reasons for the conspiracy, IMHO. Some include.

            1. Partisanship has become so polarized in the US that as with BDS today, the wish to paint the Clinton White House with a secret cabal label made the insane cult into "merely" religious freedom activists.

            2. Some people really believe that the governement is just an exrension of "secret interests" who control everything. These conspiracy adherents can be on the right and the left.

            3. There is a segment of the population who want institutions of moral or secular authority eliminated because they want to do anything they wish without discovery or condemnation.
            "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
            George Mason
            Co-author of the Second Amendment
            during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

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            • #7
              I watched the video you inserted, I wonder, does the woman realize how utterly stupid she sounds?

              I've never actually heard "stupid" so clearly before.
              Life is change. Built models for decades.
              Not sure anyone here actually knows the real me.
              I didn't for a long time either.

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              • #8
                Heard the same thing on some other show, it was disproved (I can't remember how for sure). Some people just can't handle the idea that some governments aren't out to get them. They believe that any government above the local level is bad. And that anytime any government agency intefers with someone/something they are up to some evil purpose.
                Last edited by Dallas; 30 Nov 07, 23:04. Reason: spelling
                Those that forget history are condemed to repeat it.
                If you're going to be one you might as well be a BIG RED ONE

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Paul Maud'dib View Post
                  I watched the video you inserted, I wonder, does the woman realize how utterly stupid she sounds?

                  I've never actually heard "stupid" so clearly before.
                  Aye.

                  Originally posted by Dallas View Post
                  Some people just can't handle the idea that some governments aren't out to get them. They believe that any government above the local level is bad. And that anytime any government agency indefers with someone/something they are ups to some evil purpose.
                  These types who sit in their basement surrounded by more firepower than the local national guard base, and playing the banjo, are worrying. but why does the US seem to have so many of these lot coming out the woodwork?
                  Winnie says
                  ---------------------------------
                  "He fell out of a Gestapo car, over a bridge, and onto a railway line. Then was run over by the Berlin Express.

                  It was an Accident."
                  Herr Flick.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Listy View Post
                    Aye.



                    These types who sit in their basement surrounded by more firepower than the local national guard base, and playing the banjo, are worrying. but why does the US seem to have so many of these lot coming out the woodwork?
                    The only problem is, The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobaccco and Firearms blew that entire caper from start to finish with damnable overkill. David Koresh used to jog-trot into Waco two to three times a week to buy an ice cream cone. According to the local merchants, you could practically set your clock by him, he was so regular. Had the BATF wanted him so badly, why didn't they just pull up alongside in their ATV's and nab him while he was trotting into town, unarmed and by himself, thus defusing the whole situation?

                    The BAT was/is an unnecessary bureau of the Federal Government, that should be rightfully rolled back into the Treasury Department or the FBI. Its very existance at the time was being examined and reviewed by the Federal Government and the BATF desparately looked for a way to prove their usefulness and necessity to the Feds. Problem is, they totaly screwed up two very highly publicised cases, the Waco debacle and another one at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, killing a large number of people in the process. I am not saying that the victims were all blameless or innocent. I am saying that the BATF leadership were a bunch of cowboys who never should have had access to unlimited brute force and power such as this. In both cases, the victims could have been brought to justice through negotiations, rather than using brutal sledgehammer tactics. Rant mode finished.~
                    "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Listy View Post
                      Aye.


                      but why does the US seem to have so many of these lot coming out the woodwork?
                      There were kicked out of Europe?

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                      • #12
                        but why does the US seem to have so many of these lot coming out the woodwork?

                        There were kicked out of Europe?


                        Oh, right... like there is a shortage of looneys in Europe?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Exorcist View Post
                          but why does the US seem to have so many of these lot coming out the woodwork?

                          There were kicked out of Europe?


                          Oh, right... like there is a shortage of looneys in Europe?
                          Sorry. I was refering the the British habit of loading their sociopaths onto ships with the other undesireables in hopes of never seeing them again. Royal Navy, Army transport, or immigrant ships to America (later Australia). The nut cases here are most certainly decended from those forced by the British courts to immigrat.

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                          • #14
                            I was just created around the time of WACO so I'm still a little short on why the ATF stormed the place anyway, but from what heard, Korresh has a, .50 cal sniper rifle, and a SH*T load of firearms and explosives including automatic weapons of pretty high calibers. When the ATF failed to get through the roof and ground, gas canisters were shot through the windows, but somewhere along that time they exploded killing everyone inside. Like I said, I'm not too good on the subject, but thats what I heard.
                            I am a simple man. I am by no means smarter than the average man. I am average...yet genius.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Listy View Post
                              Aye.



                              These types who sit in their basement surrounded by more firepower than the local national guard base, and playing the banjo, are worrying. but why does the US seem to have so many of these lot coming out the woodwork?
                              The moonshine got some of them so drunk, stupidity is now in their genetics...
                              I am a simple man. I am by no means smarter than the average man. I am average...yet genius.

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