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  • Reduced Scope of WW1

    Let's say that after the Archduke was shot dead in Sarajevo, the Austro-Hungarian Empire declared war on Serbia, Russia declared with them, the Germany joined it, but it stopped then. The western allies didn't think Serbia was worth the blood.

    How would that have affected WW1 and the world? My first thought is that the Germans would have not been as hard-pressed and not needed to send Lenin back to Russia to knock them out of the war, so no communism.

    What thoughts do you have?
    Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
    Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


    "Never pet a burning dog."

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  • #2
    That sounds like a good bet. Then what becomes of AH? Does he remain a worthless painted in Vienna? No WWII? No ACG
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
      That sounds like a good bet. Then what becomes of AH? Does he remain a worthless painted in Vienna? No WWII? No ACG
      He gets drafted and dies fighting the Serbs*.

      What happens to the Imperial families of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia? Do they survive?
      Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
      Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


      "Never pet a burning dog."

      RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
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      http://www.sca.org
      http://www.scv.org/
      http://www.scouting.org/

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      • #4
        Germany and Austria would have made short work of the Russian-Serbian alliance. Germany could mobilise some 5 million men and without the need to send the mass of them against France the Russians could have been defeated in short order. A quick defeat in 1914 would have probably removed the possibility of the communist revolution in Russia as well.
        The Purist

        Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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        • #5
          this would hardly happen for all wanted war. especially France and Britain. And germany started their plans well ahead. it was unstoppable.

          now, IF Austria-Hungary used some restraint and eventually delayed it's declaration of war until it could secure some guarantees from russia that this would be a limited war... maybe. but Russia was the protector of Serbia and it would intevene.

          so the least would be Russia-Serbia vs. Austria-hungary. which means Russian troops parade soon enough in Vienna. putting an end to that war rather quickly - most probably as a negotiated form of some sorts (bosnia to Serbia)
          "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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          • #6
            Originally posted by The Purist View Post
            Germany and Austria would have made short work of the Russian-Serbian alliance. Germany could mobilise some 5 million men and without the need to send the mass of them against France the Russians could have been defeated in short order. A quick defeat in 1914 would have probably removed the possibility of the communist revolution in Russia as well.
            I agree with this, but what about longer term?
            Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
            So the least would be Russia-Serbia vs. Austria-hungary. which means Russian troops parade soon enough in Vienna. putting an end to that war rather quickly - most probably as a negotiated form of some sorts (bosnia to Serbia)
            Do you think the Russians had the ability to push the Austrians that way? I don't question the size of their force, merely their ability to project power. They had done it earlier, I know, but I'm less sure about their ability to do it in the 20th century.
            Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
            Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


            "Never pet a burning dog."

            RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
            http://www.mormon.org
            http://www.sca.org
            http://www.scv.org/
            http://www.scouting.org/

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Janos View Post
              He gets drafted and dies fighting the Serbs*.

              What happens to the Imperial families of Germany, Austria-Hungary and Russia? Do they survive?
              There are still more than enough of the German body openings still running around. Sad that they never got a French Hair Cut
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Janos View Post
                I agree with this, but what about longer term?
                Do you think the Russians had the ability to push the Austrians that way? I don't question the size of their force, merely their ability to project power. They had done it earlier, I know, but I'm less sure about their ability to do it in the 20th century.
                Well, in 1915, the Russians pushed the Austrians quite hard back into the Carpathians (surrounding the Premzyl (sp?) fortress) and seized some of the passes. they failed to exploit that and rampage through the Hungarian plains for they needed to send troops back to contain Germany's victory on the mazurian lakes and follwing drive on Warsaw.

                had germany and Russia not gone to war, a couple of extra russian cavalry corps and you have Hungary cut off and the whole Austrian-Hungarian system would collapse (or AH would sue for peace).

                longer term, who knows? if AH grants the reforms that the national minorities asked, and without the burden of a long war it could maintain itself as a confederation of Austria-Hungary-Czech-slovakia-Croatia-Slovenia-Silesia-Galicia??
                "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
                  Well, in 1915, the Russians pushed the Austrians quite hard back into the Carpathians (surrounding the Premzyl (sp?) fortress) and seized some of the passes. they failed to exploit that and rampage through the Hungarian plains for they needed to send troops back to contain Germany's victory on the mazurian lakes and follwing drive on Warsaw.

                  had germany and Russia not gone to war, a couple of extra russian cavalry corps and you have Hungary cut off and the whole Austrian-Hungarian system would collapse (or AH would sue for peace).

                  longer term, who knows? if AH grants the reforms that the national minorities asked, and without the burden of a long war it could maintain itself as a confederation of Austria-Hungary-Czech-slovakia-Croatia-Slovenia-Silesia-Galicia??
                  Thanks Piero! You're always good for a solid answer.
                  Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                  Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                  "Never pet a burning dog."

                  RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
                  http://www.mormon.org
                  http://www.sca.org
                  http://www.scv.org/
                  http://www.scouting.org/

                  Comment

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