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A Different "Ultimate Solution" by Hitler?

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  • A Different "Ultimate Solution" by Hitler?

    My question to the reader's of this forum is: What If in a A.T.L., Hitler's "Ultimate Solution" for his 'European Jewish Problem,' would have been to deport all the Jews from the parts of German conqured Europe, to Palestine?

  • #2
    Well, he'd have to wait until after the war, the Jews would be a lot happier, though I doubt there'd be an Israel today. Basicly it was given to the Jews as a "Gee we really f*cked up" present. It would have released some strain on the Wehrmacht's supply lines as the rails would be devoted full time to supplying the military. Some people beleive this could have changed the outcome on the eastern front, I'm not so sure.

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    How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
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    • #3
      Back in the late 1930s the US Scocity of Friends (Quakers) sought to aid the immigration of as many Jews as they could from Germany. After some negotiation, and a considerable sum of money paid to the nazis, the immigration of a few thousand was approved. Now heres the tragic part. The German Jews had extreme diffculty obtaining entry visas to any other country. None agreed to approve entry of more than a few of these pennyless refugees. the remainderwere stuck in Germany in poverty as they had to give up all their remaining money & property to obtain a exit visa. They trickled out over the next few years, but many of this group were eventually sent to the death camps.

      If the nazis had truly wanted to just remove the Jews from their midst deporting them was not a option. No one else wanted six million Jews on their doorstep either.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
        If the nazis had truly wanted to just remove the Jews from their midst deporting them was not a option. No one else wanted six million Jews on their doorstep either.
        About the the six million jews - weren't most of the jews before the war located in Eastern Europe - Poland and Ukraine? How many actually lived in Germany before the war?
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        • #5
          Good point. I dont have that on my shelf here. Memory (that fickle witch) suggests two million, but that could be way low or high. And, I cant recall if it includes Austria, Bohemia, ect... There also a question of defenition of Jewish. The number of practicing Jews was one thing. As the 'clean up' progressed the nazis kept changing the definition. At some point (1943?) people with as little as one eighth Jewish ancestory were sent to the death camps.

          In any case no one wanted the few shiploads the Quakers tried to spring loose.
          Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 05 Aug 07, 07:05.

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          • #6
            Germany/Austria had maybe 250,000 after 1938, by the time Hitler got control of the rest of the six million and surviors the war prevented immigration.

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            • #7
              there are sites on the pre-war population of europe.

              but as for holocaust dead, out of the 5.8 million jews (ok, to say 5.8 instead of 6 one can get to jail in France or Switzerland, for revisionism, although most historians think it's actually 5.8...) yes, about 2 million were polish, and roughly 2 million were russian, balts, or ukrainian.

              most of Germany jews actually left Germany before the war (some got caught later in France, austria, etc.)

              there were high % of deaths from total population in countries like Belgium, Netherlands (highers, iirc), Czech, hungary, etc. and low % of total population deported in France, Romania, Norway, Italy (lowest). and I think almost none in Denmark, but I might be wrong... need to check.

              numbers killed in western and North europe were realtively small compared to central europe or eastern europe

              all this from memory of my studies 15 yrs ago. the exact numbers can be found easyly.

              would Hitler have made a differetn plan. perhaps. thing is he did not have plans, he had "visions". he made plans opportunistically as he went along and then got self-convinced about them fanatically.

              hey, after all he only became anti-semite when it was politically opportune for him, in the 1919-1920 time, and got self-convinced about this. he had a weird psyche. wish he could have met Freud in his early youth to be treated for his sexual problems and family issues!

              so, a plan for Palestine? why? no one in the 1920s actually seriously believed in Zionism, even the vast majority of jews thought it was a looney idea? resettle from the apic of civilisez world into backwards middle east? on the premise of some mumbo-jumbo religious thing? only a few weirdos and cynical british politicians actually believed that.


              on a side note of ironic sort. a lot of Holocaust survivors that settled in Israel are nowadays leaving Israel and going back to Germany as the Israeli pensions, and compesations fot the war (the damn government collected so much money from Germany over the years and gives pennies to the survivors. despicable), that they get better treatment in Germany!
              "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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              • #8
                some numbers:

                http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php...uleId=10005161

                The majority of Jews in prewar Europe resided in eastern Europe. The largest Jewish communities in this area were in Poland, with about 3,000,000 Jews; the European part of the Soviet Union, with 2,525,000; Romania, with 980,000; and the three Baltic states, with a combined Jewish population of about 255,000 (95,000 in Latvia, 155,000 in Lithuania, and 5,000 in Estonia).

                In prewar central Europe, the largest Jewish community was in Germany, with about 525,000 members. This was followed by Hungary with 445,000, Czechoslovakia with 357,000, and Austria with 250,000. In western Europe the largest Jewish communities were in Great Britain, with 300,000 Jews; France, with 220,000; and the Netherlands, with 160,000. In southern Europe, Greece had the largest Jewish population, with about 73,000 Jews. There were also significant Jewish communities in Yugoslavia (70,000), Italy (48,000), and Bulgaria (50,000).

                map here: http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/media_nm.ph...61&MediaId=358


                as for victoms by Country/Region Estimate

                Germany (1938 Borders) 130,000

                Austria 65,000

                Belgium & Luxembourg 29,000

                Bulgaria 7,000

                Czechoslovakia 277,000

                France 83,000

                Greece 65,000

                Hungary & Ukraine 402,000

                Italy 8,000

                Netherlands 106,000

                Norway 760

                Poland & USSR 4,565,000

                Romania 220,000

                Yugoslavia 60,000

                TOTAL 6,017,760

                Source: Nizkor Project statistics derived from Yad Vashem and Fleming, Hitler and the Final Solution.


                some other sources put total jews deaths in the Holocaust at 5.8 millions - but those studies are illegal in some countriees silly how historical research has to be subject to politically correct laws now, instead of truth. oh well. not that it changes the bottom line of the reasoning.


                __________-


                thinking about it. if 2 or 6 million jews were relocated to Palestine (and how?). Palestine would probably not have the resources to sustain such a large population plus the local arab ones. they would have starved or been killed by the angry arabs seeing that (rightfully) as an invasion
                "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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                • #9
                  There was the Madagascar Plan:

                  The Madagascar Plan was a suggested policy of the Third Reich government of Nazi Germany to forcibly relocate the Jewish population of Europe to the island of Madagascar.
                  Wiki has a good article about it:
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

                  Never went into effect of course, since the brits got there first.

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