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  • #16
    Originally posted by M.Joensen View Post
    What would the terms be?
    As I understand it Hitler was at least prepared to leave Britain and its empire untouched in return for the restoration of German colonies as per 1914 and the recognition that Germany should have a free hand on the Continent. I have seen suggestions that he offered to restore the pre-1939 borders of Western Europe and 25 Wehrmacht divisions for the British to deal with any 'problems' but the research this is based upon seems very shaky.

    On june 14. 1940, Brittish and French warships bombarded Genoa.
    Would Mussolini have accepted anything less then a Mediterranean with no Brittish Navy?
    I don't think Mussolini would have carried much clout in any Anglo-German negotiations. He might, as Piero has suggested, make some gains at the expense of France and there might well be some guarantees regarding the Med and an Italian 'free hand' in gaining the territory offered by the Allies in 1915 but denied at Versailles. Hitler would not want to weaken the British Empire too much since he regarded it as an important balancing force in the World.

    Another more interresting thing if Great Britan would have surrenderd in 1940, it wouldnt be a two front war when Hitler invaded Russia.
    Would Barbarossa be launch at an earlyer date?
    I don't believe Barbarossa could have been launched appreciably earlier due to weather constraints. The Luftwaffe would have been somewhat stronger and there *may* have been a few more panzers *if* production allocated to the u-boat fleet had focussed on the Heer.
    Signing out.

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    • #17
      as for the return of Cameroons, Togo, Ost-Afrika and Sud-West Afrika, I wonder what would Germany do with them, with the racial policies of the Nazi Regime. It was wildly off the 3rd Reich's ambitions and objectives... perhaps British Somaliland would be given to Italy. but it's really little things.

      (it would make the decolonisation of those countries even more difficult - togolese and Cameroon immigrants in Germany in the 70's instead of going to France.)

      question is: would Churchill bend to public pressure (I really think it woudl be the public that woudl pressure for peace after a Dunkerk disaster)?
      "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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      • #18
        as for parts of Istria and Dalmatia (probably the only fair demands from Italy - as those were the former lands of the Republic of Venice lwith sizeable italian populations)... the only issue is the demands would be on.. Yugoslavia, with a Pro-German king... Mussolini was really silly to join the war then. It could not win anything, and could loose a lot.
        "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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        • #19
          Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
          as for the return of Cameroons, Togo, Ost-Afrika and Sud-West Afrika, I wonder what would Germany do with them, with the racial policies of the Nazi Regime. It was wildly off the 3rd Reich's ambitions and objectives... perhaps British Somaliland would be given to Italy. but it's really little things.
          One has to see what Hitler's objectives were. One of them (and his speeches make this very clear) was an empire to rival that of the British and French - so that Germany would have the same prestige as those colonial powers. The overseas possessions may have offered little by way of economic benefit but at least it would give Germany its place in the sun.

          question is: would Churchill bend to public pressure (I really think it woudl be the public that woudl pressure for peace after a Dunkerk disaster)?
          I doubt Churchill would survive a Dunkirk disaster (politically that is). Making peace with the Nahzees (as he would pronounce it) would be too bitter a pill for him to swallow. If he wasn't pushed I think he would jump.
          Signing out.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
            as for parts of Istria and Dalmatia (probably the only fair demands from Italy - as those were the former lands of the Republic of Venice lwith sizeable italian populations)...
            Since when were colonial demands ever 'fair'?

            the only issue is the demands would be on.. Yugoslavia, with a Pro-German king... Mussolini was really silly to join the war then. It could not win anything, and could loose a lot.
            Yugoslavia was barely a nation at all. Any opposition to territorial demands (like the Soviet annexation of part of Rumania) could easily be swept aside by the Great Powers and, if need be, the country subdivided back into its consituent states. The problem might come if Mussolini set his eyes on Greece.
            Signing out.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
              The problem might come if Mussolini set his eyes on Greece.

              that would have been very stupid, Greece was leaning very much towards the Nazi camp.

              wait, he did it`!
              "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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