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Romania vs. Hungary, 1940

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  • Romania vs. Hungary, 1940

    What if war between the 2 countries errupted in August 1940? How would Germany and the Soviet Union react? How would it affect Germany's plans for Britain?

  • #2
    Rumania's oil was too important to Germany. Hitler would have put an end to any fighting with a telephone call. The USSR would have stayed out of it after a short visit by the German ambassador in Moscow.
    The Purist

    Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by The Purist View Post
      Rumania's oil was too important to Germany. Hitler would have put an end to any fighting with a telephone call. The USSR would have stayed out of it after a short visit by the German ambassador in Moscow.
      A telephone call to whom?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Imperial View Post
        A telephone call to whom?
        Hitler to the Rumanians or Hitler to the Hungarians. War between Hungary and Rumania would be intolerable to Germany.
        The Purist

        Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by The Purist View Post
          Hitler to the Rumanians or Hitler to the Hungarians. War between Hungary and Rumania would be intolerable to Germany.
          He did his best to prevent the war from starting but he failed. His telephone call falls on deaf ears and time is short. What does he do next?

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          • #6
            occupy both countries very fast. and probably has to chose one of them as the "bad boy" who started the war and symbolically punishes him.

            a war between hungary and romania in the 20's perhaps? but once geramny is a power again, no way.
            "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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            • #7
              1920 - 1940, or any time between. It would be a amusing subject for a tactical or operational level game. Highlight the details of these armys, and illustrate the tactics and doctrines of the era.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by piero1971 View Post
                occupy both countries very fast. and probably has to chose one of them as the "bad boy" who started the war and symbolically punishes him.

                a war between hungary and romania in the 20's perhaps? but once geramny is a power again, no way.
                Agree. Hitler would probably designate Hungary as the "bad boy" because he needed the Romanian oil more than he needed Hungary.

                Interesting scenario though, would this little crisis help or hurt "Barbarossa"? What does Yugoslavia do while this happens? If anything?
                Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                • #9
                  indeed, the question is when in 1940 this would happen!

                  before Norway? before France? before Italy's folly in Greece?

                  and yes, what resources would be pitted later in 1941 against Yugoslavia (or not... perhaps Yugoslavia would after all side with the axis in such a scenario).

                  this may have many repercussions depending of the date. the earlier, the more critical for Germany.

                  as for Barbarossa, I dont' think it would have a lot of impact as any such conflict would end so fast that the bulk of the armies would be intact and any government would be replaced by a puppy one with lots of efficient propaganda.

                  I wonder what hungarians and romanians in the forum feel about this scenario.

                  about it happening in the 20's or early 30's hungary woudl be crushed by Romania as it had weaker forces no natural defences and romania strong support from France.... but then it would not make sense as any conflict between those two nations would have to be started by hungary, wanting to reverse the loss of transylvania, so even in front of the Society of Nations it would look as the "bad boy".... and perhaps Germany (or Italy and France in the 20's) look like the heroes and "world cops" of the time for stopping hungary....
                  "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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                  • #10
                    Romania had 34 divisions, Hungary 24. Germany had 16 divisions in Poland. On August 26, Hitler fearing a possible Russian intervention towards the oil fields ordered 10 of those to move in Poland's SE (in the SE under German control), close to Hungary and Romania. On August 29 the Romanian Crown Council had to decide - war or concession. This is the general context of this "what if".

                    Now if war started, Romania would have had to weaken its forces on the eastern border. Would Russia take the opportunity and seize the oil fields? Would the war in the east start earlier?
                    Last edited by Imperial; 11 Jun 07, 16:17.

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                    • #11
                      Well, the thread starter, Imperial is Romanian and the time is August 1940. So we'll see where he goes with this.
                      Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                      • #12
                        yes, perhaps I shoudl read the posts of the thread starters!!!!!!

                        well, August 1940... hitler gives a VERY angry call to Adm. Horty and to Gen.Antonescu of the king. to stop this nonsense immediately or face invasion with the forces earmarked for Seelöwe. hey, perhaps it ends up with no Battle of Britain after al land hundreds of german aircrews not spending the war in Canadian prison (or dead) and fighting in Russia instead...
                        "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Imperial View Post

                          Now if war started, Romania would have had to weaken its forces on the eastern border. Would Russia take the opportunity and seize the oil fields? Would the war in the east start earlier?
                          Hmm...the war in the east starts by accident in the autum of 1940. I see the need to set a larger game map on the table!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                            Romania had 34 divisions, Hungary 24. Germany had 16 divisions in Poland. On August 26, Hitler fearing a possible Russian intervention towards the oil fields ordered 10 of those to move in Poland's SE (in the SE under German control), close to Hungary and Romania. On August 29 the Romanian Crown Council had to decide - war or concession. This is the general context of this "what if".

                            Now if war started, Romania would have had to weaken its forces on the eastern border. Would Russia take the opportunity and seize the oil fields? Would the war in the east start earlier?
                            With that scenario, do you think that Romania would move against Hungary with the Russians right on their doorstep demanding territorial concessions and threatening the oil fields? I really do see them asking Hitler to keep Hungary in line, so they could concentrate on what the Russians were doing.
                            Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Imperial
                              ...Now if war started, Romania would have had to weaken its forces on the eastern border. Would Russia take the opportunity and seize the oil fields? Would the war in the east start earlier?
                              The USSR was not going to risk war with Germany in 1940. The Red Army was in complete upheaval and in the midst of reforms. Romania, whilst miffed over the lose of Transylvannia, Lower Bukovina and Bessarabia, was not going to go to war with Hungary thus alienating Germany. After the defeat of their Polish ally, Rumania's sole support against further aggression by the USSR was Germany, there would be no war.
                              The Purist

                              Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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