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  • Germany allied with USSR?

    What if Germany, had conquered France and Poland. And booted England
    out of France as well, just like the war.

    But then instead of going into USSR as a conquerer but a liberator.
    No mass excutions of Jews or Russian civilians but only to over throw
    the Stalin Goverment. As we saw there were Russians who at first
    believed in the Germans and fought on their side.

    So Stalin is overthrown, new goverment and Germany and Russia become
    Allies.

    Now what happens in the rest of the world?

    Germany can now send all its Panzers and troops to the French coast
    or Africa. They now have and oil source from Russia.

    They could have been a world power from that point on??
    Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

  • #2
    In order for this to be the case, Germany can't be led by the Nazis. Hitler made it abundantly clear that one of his goals was the extermination of the slavs.

    If the Nazi's aren't in charge of Germany then no war happens in the first place. Period.

    Comment


    • #3
      Many senior Nazi's and army officials felt that the tactic discussed here was the proper route to take. There was a secret policy trying to recruit captured Red Army troops into the German forces. Clause Von Stauffenberg (of the bomb in the bunker fame) was the actual point man on this effort.

      Not a big stretch if we can assume the historical secret policy was pursued more actively or someone maneuvers himself into position implement the policy officially.

      Of note: "By October 1944 the General of Eastern Troops informed Himmler that at the time of the Anglo-American invasion of the continent over 800,000Eastern volunteers served in the German Army and about 100,000 in the Navy and Luftwaffe, Himmler simply could not believe it, ..... "

      http://www.feldgrau.com/rvol.html
      Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lufttiger View Post
        What if Germany, had conquered France and Poland. And booted England
        out of France as well, just like the war.

        But then instead of going into USSR as a conquerer but a liberator.
        No mass excutions of Jews or Russian civilians but only to over throw
        the Stalin Goverment. As we saw there were Russians who at first
        believed in the Germans and fought on their side.

        So Stalin is overthrown, new goverment and Germany and Russia become
        Allies.

        Now what happens in the rest of the world?

        Germany can now send all its Panzers and troops to the French coast
        or Africa. They now have and oil source from Russia.

        They could have been a world power from that point on??
        Yeah...this would have been an ugly scenario. Are the Japanese still in the axis in this HYPOTHETICAL history?
        The truth? You can't handle the truth! No truth handler you! I deride your truth handling abilities!
        Sideshow Bob.

        Comment


        • #5
          Hitler could have decided conquer first, exterminate later--not likely I admit. Had he done so, a Germany-Russia combination would be virtually invincible.
          Russia could have joined Japan in carving up China. Japan would get oil from her allies and not need look for oil once the U.S. started it's embargo.

          Then, when they are all ready, they could hit the U.S./U.K alliance as they choose.
          Imagine a Japan hitting Pearl with plenty of logistical support--or isolating Australia before attacking the U.S.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Geek44 View Post
            Yeah...this would have been an ugly scenario. Are the Japanese still in the axis in this HYPOTHETICAL history?
            I think Germany would have some kind of a pact with Japan, but
            with Russia covering their East it probably woudn't been as important.

            I don't think they would have any desire to invade North America.
            And if Japan went forward and bombed Pearl Harbor, Germany
            woudn't need to Declare war on USA?

            That would keep USA busy with Japan, which would'nt last long.
            Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Would there be a British government in exile here in the states. If Germany would have gone ahead with Sealion....we would then be involved with the reinstatement of the British Government, hence throwing the Germans out.

              What about the heavy water research conducted in Scandavia....this would progress unimpeded...Germany a nuclear power by 1944-45!
              The free world knows, out of the bitter wisdom of experience, that vigilance and sacrifice are the price of liberty.
              Dwight D. Eisenhower
              April 16, 1953

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by AirborneBob View Post
                Would there be a British government in exile here in the states. If Germany would have gone ahead with Sealion....we would then be involved with the reinstatement of the British Government, hence throwing the Germans out.

                What about the heavy water research conducted in Scandavia....this would progress unimpeded...Germany a nuclear power by 1944-45!
                I'm thinking why even waste time with Op. Sealion. As England was really
                no threat other than bombing runs.

                I really like your point about heavy water, another reason why Germany
                could've been a real super power.
                Life is what happens to you when your busy making other plans! Lennon - www.lufttiger.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lufttiger View Post
                  I'm thinking why even waste time with Op. Sealion. As England was really
                  no threat other than bombing runs.
                  You forgot one major thing.

                  The Royal Navy

                  Britain still basically controled the Atlantic Ocean, English Channel and the entrance to the Med with its huge Navy.

                  Germany would have to destroy most of the Royal Navy, (Or force Britain's surrender.) for Britain to no longer pose a real threat to its shipping and occupied coastal regions.

                  Also as long as the RN remained intact, German expansion and trade outside Europe would be made difficult.

                  Cheers, Dave
                  Last edited by Aussie Dave; 11 Jan 07, 16:21.
                  Roger, I see them. Attacking now

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AirborneBob View Post
                    Would there be a British government in exile here in the states.
                    No, the British government in exile would have been based in Canada. They are a sovereign country and part of the commonwealth. I believe plans were drawn up ready for the royal family and the government to be evacuated to Canada in the case of an invasion.
                    Wolster

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                    • #11
                      Wolster is correct, the Government of Great Britain had a contingency plan to evacuate to Canada.

                      Most of the British gold reserve was indeed shipped to Canada during the war as part of the plan http://www.collectioncanada.ca/cool/002027-2301-e.html

                      So a German/USSR alliance that had forced the capitulation of the UK would still face the remnants of the RN Atlantic fleets based in Canada (also part of the historical plan).
                      Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aussie Dave View Post
                        You forgot one major thing.

                        The Royal Navy

                        Britain still basically controled the Atlantic Ocean, English Channel and the entrance to the Med with its huge Navy.

                        Germany would have to destroy most of the Royal Navy, (Or force Britain's surrender.) for Britain to no longer pose a real threat to its shipping and occupied coastal regions.

                        Also as long as the RN remained intact, German expansion and trade outside Europe would be made difficult.

                        Cheers, Dave
                        But if Japan goes after India with Russia the supply route, Britain's navy is stretched thin, and adding the Russians subs to the uboat menace stretches the RN even further. German/Russian combined manufacturing capacity gives them plenty of bombers and u-boats to hit Britain with.
                        Last edited by grognard; 13 Jan 07, 08:52. Reason: spelling

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
                          In order for this to be the case, Germany can't be led by the Nazis. Hitler made it abundantly clear that one of his goals was the extermination of the slavs.

                          If the Nazi's aren't in charge of Germany then no war happens in the first place. Period.
                          I disagree. If the Nazi's aren't in charge of Germany then no war is lost. Period.

                          They were dieing of starvation in some places. They were going to fight and break out of that sooner or later.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by k98_man33 View Post
                            I disagree. If the Nazi's aren't in charge of Germany then no war is lost. Period.

                            They were dieing of starvation in some places. They were going to fight and break out of that sooner or later.

                            Who was dieing of starvation?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Anyone ever play Hearts of Iron or Hearts of Iron 2?

                              Do you remember what this option was called if you wanted to select it?

                              It was the Unholy Alliance!



                              And if it worked, you basically became invincible.

                              Comment

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