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No Zionist Movement For Reestablishment of Isreal?

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  • No Zionist Movement For Reestablishment of Isreal?

    Assume that the Zionist movement for the restablisment of Isreal does not develop. Perhaps nations in the Americas are more welcoming to Europes Jewish population, or perhaps some part of the British Empire. So, in 1948 there is only a small Jewish population in Palestine that has long experince at surviving with its neighbors. Too small to be more than a local political faction.

    How does the post WWII history of the Middle East develop?

    Can the militant Islam groups, like the Wahabists gain much traction without the Zionist bogeyman?

    What direction politcally & internationally do the Arab governments take without the frequent wars with Isreal?

  • #2
    it's a good question.


    if no Zionism movement (zionism had nothing to do with how europeans treated jews, as it was created in a period where jews were treated better than ever before)....

    one must assume no Israel - that is Great Britain does not find jewish support for it's plan to create a jewish (i.e. British dominated) colony in a land taken from the Ottomans...

    if no Israel then:

    - How does the post WWII history of the Middle East develop?

    not much different, as most countries would be influenced and play into the Cold War games... some would go with the USSR some with the West... but with no Israel for France and Britain to anchor their MIddle East politics in the late 40's, 50's and 60's you can count on them to develop Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon as the bastion of the West in the region. the US would go for Iran and Saudi, as normal.


    - Can the militant Islam groups, like the Wahabists gain much traction without the Zionist bogeyman?

    Wahhabism came into beeing without the need of Israel, it was internal arabian politics. but clearly there is no Jewish nor ISraeli/zionist bogeymen for many regimes in the Middle East.... others will have to be found... christianity? evil ways of the west? ethnic minorities? etc. the Middle East would be even more quarrelling than today.

    - What direction politcally & internationally do the Arab governments take without the frequent wars with Isreal?

    turmoil, then dictoatorship, western style (Saddam) or Soviet style..

    it would still be a mess.

    BUT on the other hand more jews would live in europe and the US, thus contributing to even more technical advances and economical progress.
    "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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    • #3
      Yes in fact Israel closest alies were French and British, in this order The Israeli nuclear program was developed by french help, including first israeli reactor. The post 1967 and 1973 fuel embargos, and rise of muslim emigartion to Europe chenged this. Back then republicans like Eisenchower were not too friendly to Jewish state in contrast to democrats lead by Kennedies. America's greatest alie was Shahist Iran. Its funny like all this changed recently.
      Kosovo is Serbian.
      I support United Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
      Behead those who say Islam is violent!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DracoBorealis View Post
        Yes in fact Israel closest alies were French and British, in this order The Israeli nuclear program was developed by french help, including first israeli reactor. The post 1967 and 1973 fuel embargos, and rise of muslim emigartion to Europe chenged this. Back then republicans like Eisenchower were not too friendly to Jewish state in contrast to democrats lead by Kennedies. America's greatest alie was Shahist Iran. Its funny like all this changed recently.
        yes, the other funny things is how so many people thing that the USA always supported Israel and always helped Israel and that it was the USA who made Israel happen in 1948... and that europe was always against Israel and pro-arab and pro-palestinian, etc.

        .. .bottom line, ignorance+propaganda works.. he he
        "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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        • #5
          Hmmm. ok, without Isreal Arab/Western tensions would be focused in different directions. I wonder where?

          Immigration to Europe would still exist.

          The secular/Islamic government 'debate' in the Muslim world would still exist, along with friction from real & imagined Western support of the secularist leaders.

          Compitiion in Equitorial Africa between evangelical Muslims and Christians expanding their adherents.

          I'm also wondering about a increased frequency of warfare between Arab nation werethere no Isreal to focus on?

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