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As A Result of Germany Winning World War II

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  • As A Result of Germany Winning World War II

    During the first voyages of the Graf Zeppelin in 1941 it became obvious that the Me-109 was not an ideal aircraft to operate from a carrier. This was mainly due to its narrow track undercarriage and short range.
    The Fi-167 and Ju-87 also performed badly owing to their vulnerability to enemy fighters. In 1943 the FW-190T was chosen as an interim fighter for the carrier and 20 aircraft were converted.

    For the long term the navy wanted the new Me-262 and Ar-234 jets for its carriers, the Graf Zeppelin and her sister ships the Adolf Hitler and the Kaizer Wilhelm. The problem with the early jets was that they needed a relatively long take-off run because of the slow revving engines. Also range was a problem.

    In 1945 is was decided to put the Graf Zeppelin in dry-dock for an extensive refit. Its anti-aircraft armament was updated and a new radar installed. To make it possible to operate jets from her deck this was lengthened by 15 meters and the catapults were replaced. The new system didn't use the launching cradles used by the old catapults but instead used a system whereby the catapult was attached to the nose gear of the aircraft.

    Messerschmitt and Arado developed special versions of the Me-262 and Ar-234. The Messerschmitt Me-262T-1 was developed in 1945 from the Me-262F fighter using more powerful Jumo 004K engines. The airframe was strengthened for carrier use and equipped with wings that folded just outboard of the engines. The Jumo 004K engine had a Walter rocket unit integrated in the engine for extra take-off power.
    Armament consisted of four MK 108 machine guns. The Me-262T-1 could carry 2 500kg bombs on external racks. In 1946 and 1947 Messerschmitt produced 20 Me-262T-1 aircraft followed by 60 Me-262T-2's which had the Jumo 004K-3 engine which produced more trust and had a longer life span.

    The Me-262T's performed very well against the US and Canadian prop fighters like the Hellcat and Bearcat. Only the introduction of the North American FJ Fury jet fighter enabled the allies to counter the Me-262 on equal terms.

    The Arado Ar-234T-1 was a very advanced aircraft for its time. It featured a revolving radar antenna on top of the aircraft and could function as an early warning aircraft flying high above the fleet. The system was first tested in 1945 and 3 Ar-234T's were stationed on the Graf Zeppelin when it sailed in November 1946.

    This system proved decisive in the sea battles against the remains of the British fleet which had fled from the UK to Canada when England fell to the Germans in December 1940. Because of the early warning system several Canadian air strikes could be thwarted.

    As a torpedo bomber the Graf Zeppelin carried a number of converted Me-410 aircraft. These were standard production Me-410B's converted to Me-410G-1 status, featuring a stronger DB603S engine and a strengthened undercarriage. These aircraft were quite satisfactory, in fact they were used as carrier bombers until 1963.

    The two sister ships of the Graf Zeppelin were converted to her standard in 1947 and 1948. The Graf Zeppelin remained in active service until the 6th of September 1957 when she was sold to Argentine and was renamed Rio Major.

    (Forgive Me, I Found This Someplace & Was Just Inspired To Share it)

  • #2
    Thats a really extensive "what-if?"

    I agree that the Fw-190 would have been far more fitting for carrier role then its Me-109 counterpart. It had wide landing gear, not to mention it was able to be a fighter and a bomber at the same time.

    As for the Me-262....I think whoever wrote this was way overoptimistic about its performance. Sure it was fast but it was also very akward. The pilots that shot down Me-262s were able to do so beacuse their planes were more manuverable then the Schwalbe. While Me-262 was not a bad plane (afterall, it did influence the development of aircraft), it wasn`t best suitable to fight Allied aircraft. At least the models that were available during the time were not good enough yet.

    But I wont argue the Ar-234....it proved to be a quite promising plane so it could have potentially proved very good.

    However, I doubt the Me-410 would have saw such a long service. It wasn`t a bad plane but by wars end it was becoming quite aged. Also, the development of jet aircraft would have killed its usefullness. I imagine it being used till 1946, 1947. Even the year 1950 seems viable. But no longer then that.

    By my calculations, I think the Graf Zeppelin would have lived such a fate if its development would have been countinued.
    "Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism" - Nightfreeze about Eve Online

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    • #3
      If you want a 'fun' read with some interesting, if 'off the wall', ideas then can I recommend http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/furamain.htm - take the links to the other navies and then the individual ships for the really good stuff!
      Signing out.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Full Monty
        If you want a 'fun' read with some interesting, if 'off the wall', ideas then can I recommend http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/furamain.htm - take the links to the other navies and then the individual ships for the really good stuff!
        DOODE!!!!!!!!! I discovered that site like 10 years ago.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Duke William
          DOODE!!!!!!!!! I discovered that site like 10 years ago.
          For the millionth time, don't exaggerate!

          Do you think I posted the link just for your ducal benefit?
          Signing out.

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          • #6
            After looking over the site, id say the Graf Zeppelin is the most "realistic" of the vessels provided.

            But he does have some interesting ideas. I mean come on...who would think of putting aircraft on a submarine?

            He should try creating these vessels in Springsharp to see if they actually could have been created.
            "Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism" - Nightfreeze about Eve Online

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Full Monty
              For the millionth time, don't exaggerate!

              Do you think I posted the link just for your ducal benefit?
              No, Really, I did discover that site like 10 years ago.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tom Phoenix
                After looking over the site, id say the Graf Zeppelin is the most "realistic" of the vessels provided.

                But he does have some interesting ideas. I mean come on...who would think of putting aircraft on a submarine?

                He should try creating these vessels in Springsharp to see if they actually could have been created.
                Tom, did you know that between the wars, The Brits produced a couple of Submarines armed with Battleship Guns & a Floatplane to boot?

                You think the French were the first to come up with that idea?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Duke William
                  Tom, did you know that between the wars, The Brits produced a couple of Submarines armed with Battleship Guns & a Floatplane to boot?
                  Didn't the Japanese also produce some monster subs with aircraft 'attached' towards the end of WW2?

                  After looking over the site, id say the Graf Zeppelin is the most "realistic" of the vessels provided. But he does have some interesting ideas.
                  I like the accounts of the ships military service and the way that photos have been doctored to be ones of the fictional vessels. There's a nice streak of warped humour running through the whole subsection of the site.
                  Signing out.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Full Monty
                    Didn't the Japanese also produce some monster subs with aircraft 'attached' towards the end of WW2?
                    Yes, Those were the I-400 Series. They actually managed to make it to our west coast & Bomb California.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Full Monty
                      Didn't the Japanese also produce some monster subs with aircraft 'attached' towards the end of WW2?



                      I like the accounts of the ships military service and the way that photos have been doctored to be ones of the fictional vessels. There's a nice streak of warped humour running through the whole subsection of the site.

                      The Japanese had two (2) long, long range subs that each carried two (2) aircraft apiece in unweldy (read that dive trim instability) hangers abaft the conning tower. This is where the plan to bomb the panama canal came from... I think both were targeted via ultra and sunk in route.....


                      VM

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by E_Von_Manstein
                        The Japanese had two (2) long, long range subs that each carried two (2) aircraft apiece in unweldy (read that dive trim instability) hangers abaft the conning tower. This is where the plan to bomb the panama canal came from... I think both were targeted via ultra and sunk in route.....
                        Cheers! And welcome back to 'Der Kessel'. Always good to have another worthy individual to spar with.
                        Signing out.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Duke William
                          Tom, did you know that between the wars, The Brits produced a couple of Submarines armed with Battleship Guns & a Floatplane to boot?

                          You think the French were the first to come up with that idea?

                          thats was the french with the surcouf ..

                          thomas

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Surcouf
                          owner of the yahoo group for WW1 ,WW2 and Modern TO&Es
                          (Tables of organisation & equipment or Unit of action )

                          http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/TOandEs/

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Duke William
                            Yes, Those were the I-400 Series. They actually managed to make it to our west coast & Bomb California.
                            if I remember correctly they even launched the only ww2 air raid against US mainland. the floatplanes flew over Oregon and dropped incendiary bombs (total 60 kg explosives, duh!) with aim to start massive fires (eco-terrorism before it's day!)... that was not even noticed of course!
                            "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by thomas.tmcc
                              thats was the french with the surcouf ..

                              thomas

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Surcouf
                              Actually Dinkle, Uhm, I mean Thomas, The Brits Built 2 Monsters as well with Big Battleship Guns. I'll dig them out and prove it here in a couple of days.

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