Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Defenestration of Martin Luther

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Defenestration of Martin Luther

    One of the major turning points of the middle ages was Martin Luther posting his thesis on the door of Wittenberg Cathedral. This led to the bible's translation, the 30 Years War, and the liberalization of Europe in many respects.

    For a while, he hid out at the Wartburg, high on a mountain near Eisenach in Thuringia (central Germany). Let's imagine that the Emperor's troops found him there and defenestrated him*.

    What would have changed in Europe and the world?

    * This is my favorite word in the English language, and not one you get to use every day. It means "throwing someone out the window", usually from a high place. If you have a little sister, give it a try and report back.
    Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
    Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


    "Never pet a burning dog."

    RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
    http://www.mormon.org
    http://www.sca.org
    http://www.scv.org/
    http://www.scouting.org/

  • #2
    Not much. There would be no protestants, just Catholics, Orthodox and those guys from Utah

    There would also be no 30 year war for that matter.
    "Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism" - Nightfreeze about Eve Online

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Tom Phoenix
      Not much. There would be no protestants, just Catholics, Orthodox and those guys from Utah

      There would also be no 30 year war for that matter.
      But without Luther there would be no Reformation.
      Without the Reformation there would be no Counter-reformation.
      Without the Counter-reformation there would be no renaissance.

      See where I'm going with this?

      ..and we guys from Utah will be there regardless...you got that part right!
      Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
      Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


      "Never pet a burning dog."

      RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
      http://www.mormon.org
      http://www.sca.org
      http://www.scv.org/
      http://www.scouting.org/

      Comment


      • #4
        Sorry, mate, I dont know the english name for you guys from Utah so I was preety blunt. My apologies.

        I dont think the Reformation or Counter-Reformation has any effect on the renaissance. Also, any effects of he Reformation would just take longer to be accepted.
        "Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism" - Nightfreeze about Eve Online

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tom Phoenix
          Sorry, mate, I dont know the english name for you guys from Utah so I was preety blunt. My apologies.
          Oh, I'm not upset at all -- I think it was darned clever! We're the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, but other folks call us Mormons.
          Originally posted by Tom Phoenix
          I dont think the Reformation or Counter-Reformation has any effect on the renaissance. Also, any effects of he Reformation would just take longer to be accepted.
          I they did. Counter-reformation led to scriptures in the local languages, greater influence of people actually understanding the nature of religion, which led (in a way of speaking) to the rise of man above being a worm (as we called ourselves in some medieval documents, in relation to God) to something worthwhile. Hence the renaissance.
          Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
          Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


          "Never pet a burning dog."

          RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
          http://www.mormon.org
          http://www.sca.org
          http://www.scv.org/
          http://www.scouting.org/

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh so you are Mormons? Allright, good to know. And im glad your not upset.

            Yes, but as you know Catholic translations followed later. But yes, it might effect when the reinassance would begin.
            "Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism" - Nightfreeze about Eve Online

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tom Phoenix
              Not much. There would be no protestants, just Catholics, Orthodox and those guys from Utah

              There would also be no 30 year war for that matter.
              Without the thirty years war France would not have Alsace or Loraine. So there would have been less antagonism between it and Germany.
              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

              Comment


              • #8
                What such discussion would be complete without The 95 Theses for context?

                On the Plains of Hesitation lie the blackened bones of countless millions who, at the dawn of victory, sat down to rest-and resting... died. Adlai E. Stevenson

                ACG History Today

                BoRG

                Comment


                • #9
                  some guys in Utah can get lots of wifes. you got to respect that!

                  well, as for Luther.. Reformation was long overdue in christianity and had this charismatic figure been sentenced as heretic, the fundamental changes were starting to put pressure on the Roman church, who would probably have had to change and reform. for sure a more "true to the book" Roman Catholic Church would have made an avoidance of religious wars (otehr excuses would be found to fight thought, I'm sure).

                  as for renaissance, the movement started before - the rediscovery in Italy of Greek and Roman art and science and the willingness of the rich merchants and princes and popes to emulate that and recreate cultural wealth and not only monetary wealth. those ideas spread to Holland and elsewhere but the movement was set before reform and counter-reform.
                  "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Actually, I'm going to have to go a little bit against the flow here.

                    The murder of Martin Luther undoubtably would have changed the Reformation, but I tend to think that it would have gone forward regardless. The Catholic Church at that time was absolutely riddled with corruption and usurpation of power from the countries. Martin Luther was merely the most vocal, charismatic, and intelligent of those crying for reform in the Church.

                    The movement was bound to happen, given the abuses of power and religion facilitated by the Vatican, the question was just when it was going to occur.
                    Ship of the Month: USS McFaul (DDG 74)
                    Click Here for More Info

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The death of of Luther would propably strenthen only radical elements in reformation movement like Zwingli, Kalvin or Karlstadian anabaptists. without Luther who was socially rather conservative threre will be not support from german principes and free cities to protestant couse so emperor and pope propably wuold sink the reformation in blood like they did it with Husitism, gnostic Catarism etc... but with so corupt Church threre will be next Reformist or Heresiah in fifty years time I 'm sure
                      Kosovo is Serbian.
                      I support United Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
                      Behead those who say Islam is violent!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DracoBorealis
                        The death of of Luther would propably strenthen only radical elements in reformation movement like Zwingli, Kalvin or Karlstadian anabaptists. without Luther who was socially rather conservative threre will be not support from german principes and free cities to protestant couse so emperor and pope propably wuold sink the reformation in blood like they did it with Husitism, gnostic Catarism etc... but with so corupt Church threre will be next Reformist or Heresiah in fifty years time I 'm sure
                        Good points. Speaking of Luther as a conservative, his death may have made worse the German Peasant revolt, which Luther spoke out against. Of course, without his liberalization of the church, that war may not have happened. Do you guys mind if I just sit here and argue with myself?
                        Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                        Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                        "Never pet a burning dog."

                        RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
                        http://www.mormon.org
                        http://www.sca.org
                        http://www.scv.org/
                        http://www.scouting.org/

                        Comment

                        Latest Topics

                        Collapse

                        Working...
                        X