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Could Spain have entered World War 2?

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  • Could Spain have entered World War 2?

    This is something I have thought about for several years.

    A) Could Spain have joined the Axis in World War II?

    B) Would such an action have helped or hurt the Axis? And how would the war have been affected?

  • #2
    From my understanding, the Spanish were still recovering from their civil war to really make much of a difference.

    The British would have most likely been able to land on Iberia and make short work of whatever forces the Spanish could muster to stop them.

    The Fuhrer would have then been forced to send troops to fight the British in Spain. If they could not push the British out of Spain, then all of Southern France would be at risk.


    The only option Spain had was to hope they could stay neutral until forced into the war which, thankfully for them, they were not.
    Mad Cow's Steakhouse & Doggie's Cheatin' Heart Saloon and Cigar Emporium

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    • #3
      Hitler's comment following his last meeting with Franco in October 1940 was that he would 'rather have several teeth pulled than go through that again'! Franco would only have joined in if the war was more or less over. He knew Spain was in no position to be a 'player' in the war so 'non-belligerence' with Germany was the best he could offer.
      Signing out.

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      • #4
        Spain was dependent on the Allies for food, fuel, and raw materials. The Allies used this dependence to ensure the Spanish stayed out of the war.
        "The legitimate object of war is a more perfect peace." General William T. Sherman , 20 July 1865

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mad Cow
          From my understanding, the Spanish were still recovering from their civil war to really make much of a difference.

          The British would have most likely been able to land on Iberia and make short work of whatever forces the Spanish could muster to stop them.

          The Fuhrer would have then been forced to send troops to fight the British in Spain. If they could not push the British out of Spain, then all of Southern France would be at risk.

          The only option Spain had was to hope they could stay neutral until forced into the war which, thankfully for them, they were not.
          All true. I suspect Spain would have been more of a help than a hindrance -- and not their fault. Spanish troops would not have been motivated, and Hitler would have found himself with one more albatross around his neck.

          More than likely, Spain would have been knocked out early and Franco would have found himself facing a firing squad. It's not inconceivable that the Reds would have taken over and changed the balance of power in western Europe for decades after the end of the war.
          Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
          Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


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          • #6
            With considerable German support the Spainish might've been able to threaten Gibraltar (although an outright Spainsish victory would have been unlikely) but the distraction alone might been enough to take the heat off the Axis supply convoys bound for North Africa that were getting hammered by the Allies and might given enough encouragment to the Italian Navy to launch a few aggressive sorties.
            Last edited by Paddybhoy; 23 Feb 06, 17:00.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Paddybhoy
              With considerable German support the Spainish might've been able to threaten Gibraltar (although an outright Spainsish victory would have been unlikely) but the distraction alone might been enough to take the heat of the Axis supply convoys bound for North Africa that were getting hammered by the Allies and might given enough encouragment to the Italian Navy to launch a few aggressive sorties.
              Which goes back to my point -- the Germans were overcommitted as it was. Sending a corps to Spain would have been more than the Germans could afford without a significant delay in their timetable (which was pretty much crap anyway).
              Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
              Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


              "Never pet a burning dog."

              RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
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              • #8
                Thanks to all who have participated so far. It seems that all agree that Spain was in no shape to fight another war. So lets asume that Franco thinks it will help his international reputation to join the war. Spain joins just after Italy declares war and takes a small amount of France and a large part of Morocco. Does Hitler help the Spanish or leave them to rot? Also would the Allies be forced to invade and at what point would Spain be invaded? Would Hitler only help after the Allies landed? How much would the war have been effected?

                I personally feel that Hitler would not be happy but would be forced to help when mainland Spain was invaded. I also think that the war would have lasted at least another 6 months.

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                • #9
                  Any Allied invasion would be a bitch logistically, the most likely forces would have been Free Fench and British, neither country was particularily popular at the time with any of the Spainish, regardless of political affiliation. The Soviets I imagine wouldn't be very happer either, they would see it as the Imperialists gaining overseas possessions at the price of Russian blood so it could've been the catalyst of the armistice between Germany and USSR.
                  Last edited by Paddybhoy; 23 Feb 06, 17:13.

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                  • #10
                    I dont see why people underestimate the Spaniards. The Civil War, along with bad sides, also produced good sides for the army. The troops were highly trained, experienced and had modern equipment. Just check the battle record of the Spanish Blue Division and youll see my point.

                    But yes, the Spaniards wouldnt have been much motivated for another war easily. I think Britain would have had to lose for them to join. At least in Strategic Command, Spain joins the Axis after the defeat of GB.

                    But the Spanish would have proved much help in the North African campaign. And this would keep pressure on Giblartar, an important point for the Allies.
                    "Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism" - Nightfreeze about Eve Online

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tom Phoenix
                      I dont see why people underestimate the Spaniards. The Civil War, along with bad sides, also produced good sides for the army. The troops were highly trained, experienced and had modern equipment. Just check the battle record of the Spanish Blue Division and youll see my point.

                      But yes, the Spaniards wouldnt have been much motivated for another war easily. I think Britain would have had to lose for them to join. At least in Strategic Command, Spain joins the Axis after the defeat of GB.

                      But the Spanish would have proved much help in the North African campaign. And this would keep pressure on Giblartar, an important point for the Allies.
                      The Blue Division is an excellent example of the opposite -- it could not be sustained because there were not enough volunteers to keep it in the field.

                      I think after the Civil War, the Spanish were not motivated to die for Hitler or anyone else.
                      Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                      Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                      "Never pet a burning dog."

                      RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Engineer 1888
                        Spain joins just after Italy declares war and takes a small amount of France and a large part of Morocco.
                        IIRC, Spain already had Morocco -- isn't that where Franco crossed over from with his "Army of Africa" to change the course of the Civil War?
                        Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                        Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                        "Never pet a burning dog."

                        RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
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                        http://www.sca.org
                        http://www.scv.org/
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Janos
                          IIRC, Spain already had Morocco -- isn't that where Franco crossed over from with his "Army of Africa" to change the course of the Civil War?
                          Spain controlled Spanish Morocco, Morocco was still a French possession at the time.

                          In fact the French possessions in NW Africa was the primary reason that Franco refused to side with Hitler during their meeting at Hendaye on the French/Spanish border.
                          In return for Spanish assistance for Operation Felix(capture of Gibraltar), Franco demanded a whole slew of raw materials from Germany as well as the French possessions in NW Africa.
                          Still requiring the cooperation of the Vichy government, Hitler balked and nothing ever came of "Felix".
                          Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tigersqn
                            Spain controlled Spanish Morocco, Morocco was still a French possession at the time.
                            Yep, thanks. Morocco was divided, with most of it belonging to France, and another part belonging to Spain. It may be that both were called Morocco at the time, since the article about Franco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco) repeatedly discusses Spanish troops in Morocco. Things were not always as clear then as they are now.

                            Here is a map showing Spain and a bit of Africa during the Spanish Civil War.
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S..._Civil_War.gif
                            Barcsi János ispán vezérőrnagy
                            Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2003 & 2006


                            "Never pet a burning dog."

                            RECOMMENDED WEBSITES:
                            http://www.mormon.org
                            http://www.sca.org
                            http://www.scv.org/
                            http://www.scouting.org/

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                            • #15
                              Actually, from what I have read, there were many volunteers that joined the Blue Division. Also, my point was the Blue Division has a good combat record.

                              And yes, The African Corps consisted of the most highly trained Spanish troops which, in the Civil War, dominated the South. It was thanks to the Germans transport planes that these troops were transferred into Spain itself.
                              "Beneath its gilded beauty, though, there lies a poorly designed game which rewards the greedy and violent, and punishes the hardworking and honest; and if you think about it, that's a good representation of capitalism" - Nightfreeze about Eve Online

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