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If America hadn't ended the Vietnam War

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  • If America hadn't ended the Vietnam War

    I'm British so what do I know about Nam, but I've often wondered what would have happened if Nixon and all Presidents who came after him had adopted a "victory at all costs" strategy and let it go on and on, would the war still be raging now in 2018?
    Uncle Ho was quite confident that victory would go to the North, so do ACG members think he was just talking the talk or would America have won in the end if it went on for another 10/50/100 years?




  • #2
    you posted Ho's quote. We were certainly capable of killing them to the "last man" I don't have enough time or will to spell out the exact way we could have gone about that...........but there it is in a nutshell. As to what timeline that would have taken..........about the same as the last irag war.......

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    • #3
      Who says we didn't win, the Soviet Union collapsed, China is a major trading partner, international communism seems contained, the Russians just backed down in Syria, Iraq seems to not be under the influence of the Russians, Iran seems isolated, the set back in the Ukraine seems like a minor loss, Cuba is oddly quiet and exporting less and less revolution, Vietnam doesn't seem like a threat to it's neighbors so on and so forth.

      Sometimes winning has to be seen from a broader perspective. The U.S. may have abandoned Vietnam but it was not fatal in the way that Afghanistan may have been for the Soviet Union. There are battles that are not worth winning for example the Romans didn't push to conquer all of Britain. Some wars you have to win such as the Russian war against Chechnya and for those you keep on fighting to the bitter end.

      Vietnam turned into a humanitarian disaster, killing millions of Vietnamese was eating away at the soul of our Republic. Leaving was perhaps the lesser of two evils. What is the point of securing a people's freedom if most of them are dead. The difference between Russia's Afghanistan and the U.S.'s Vietnam is the peace treaty with North Vietnam which transferred the moral responsibility to North Vietnam. Peace with honor is not exactly the way to look at it. It is more a case of stabilizing the domestic political situation while leaving the enemy sufficiently weakened that they will be too busy within their borders to export the revolution.
      We hunt the hunters

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      • #4
        The US did win that conflict (Vietnam War). What happened afterward was where it all fell apart, all of those hard-fought victories wasted.

        And I agree with wolfhnd as well. What would be the point of killing everyone if it's those people you're trying to free in the first place?
        The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
          Who says we didn't win, the Soviet Union collapsed, China is a major trading partner, international communism seems contained, the Russians just backed down in Syria, Iraq seems to not be under the influence of the Russians, Iran seems isolated, the set back in the Ukraine seems like a minor loss, Cuba is oddly quiet and exporting less and less revolution, Vietnam doesn't seem like a threat to it's neighbors so on and so forth.

          Sometimes winning has to be seen from a broader perspective. The U.S. may have abandoned Vietnam but it was not fatal in the way that Afghanistan may have been for the Soviet Union. There are battles that are not worth winning for example the Romans didn't push to conquer all of Britain. Some wars you have to win such as the Russian war against Chechnya and for those you keep on fighting to the bitter end.

          Vietnam turned into a humanitarian disaster, killing millions of Vietnamese was eating away at the soul of our Republic. Leaving was perhaps the lesser of two evils. What is the point of securing a people's freedom if most of them are dead. The difference between Russia's Afghanistan and the U.S.'s Vietnam is the peace treaty with North Vietnam which transferred the moral responsibility to North Vietnam. Peace with honor is not exactly the way to look at it. It is more a case of stabilizing the domestic political situation while leaving the enemy sufficiently weakened that they will be too busy within their borders to export the revolution.
          Very good points explained eloquently............

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          • #6
            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
            Who says we didn't win, the Soviet Union collapsed, China is a major trading partner, international communism seems contained, the Russians just backed down in Syria, Iraq seems to not be under the influence of the Russians, Iran seems isolated, the set back in the Ukraine seems like a minor loss, Cuba is oddly quiet and exporting less and less revolution, Vietnam doesn't seem like a threat to it's neighbors so on and so forth.

            Sometimes winning has to be seen from a broader perspective. The U.S. may have abandoned Vietnam but it was not fatal in the way that Afghanistan may have been for the Soviet Union. There are battles that are not worth winning for example the Romans didn't push to conquer all of Britain. Some wars you have to win such as the Russian war against Chechnya and for those you keep on fighting to the bitter end.

            Vietnam turned into a humanitarian disaster, killing millions of Vietnamese was eating away at the soul of our Republic. Leaving was perhaps the lesser of two evils. What is the point of securing a people's freedom if most of them are dead. The difference between Russia's Afghanistan and the U.S.'s Vietnam is the peace treaty with North Vietnam which transferred the moral responsibility to North Vietnam. Peace with honor is not exactly the way to look at it. It is more a case of stabilizing the domestic political situation while leaving the enemy sufficiently weakened that they will be too busy within their borders to export the revolution.
            In a very real sense, we did win. The Communists lost in Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand, for a victory in Vietnam. So, instead of most or all of SE Asia being Communist, only Vietnam ended up being so.
            Yes, following that victory we saw Cambodia fall to Pol Pot, but even the Communists couldn't stomach him.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
              you posted Ho's quote. We were certainly capable of killing them to the "last man" I don't have enough time or will to spell out the exact way we could have gone about that...........but there it is in a nutshell. As to what timeline that would have taken..........about the same as the last irag war.......
              Iraq was mostly open desert, but perhaps Charlie might have been harder to find in the jungle?..

              Below- a heli door gunner over the Mekong Delta, 1967

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
                Iraq was mostly open desert, but perhaps Charlie might have been harder to find in the jungle?..

                Below- a heli door gunner over the Mekong Delta, 1967
                been there done that. look closely at my avatar............

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                  Who says we didn't win..
                  Right..
                  "The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence.
                  From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance"- Prof. Douglas Pike, University of California, Berkeley


                  US troops near Da Nang, 1965

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jeffdoorgunnr View Post
                    been there done that. look closely at my avatar............
                    Cool man, here's a shrunken version of the big pic if you want to use this as your avatar instead..

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
                      The US did win that conflict (Vietnam War). What happened afterward was where it all fell apart, all of those hard-fought victories wasted..
                      But pics like this might the make popcorn-munching TV viewers around the world think Charlie won..


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
                        ..I agree with wolfhnd as well. What would be the point of killing everyone if it's those people you're trying to free in the first place?
                        I thought cheeky Charlie was coming down the Ho Chi Minh trail from the North to invade South Vietnam?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
                          But pics like this might the make popcorn-munching TV viewers around the world think Charlie won..


                          That's the point. Historical Revisionism.
                          The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                            international communism seems contained,
                            Just how many Communist states remain? Cuba, Vietnam, and anyone else?
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
                              Just how many Communist states remain? Cuba, Vietnam, and anyone else?
                              North Korea
                              We hunt the hunters

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