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Hitler escapes...possible (realistic) scenarios?

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  • Hitler escapes...possible (realistic) scenarios?

    Recently, the "History" Channel has released a small series called "Hunting Hitler", in which investigators, detectives, ex-military intelligence agents and investigative journalists explore the possibility that Hitler escaped Berlin in April 1945 and made his way into hidden exile in Argentina.

    As the basis for this new "investigation"....they are using newly declassified (supposedly declassified 2014) FBI files of interviews, eyewitness and testimonies from ex-Nazis that Hitler was not seen dead in the Fuhrerbunker but rather he was widely suspected that he had made it out.

    The most recent episode describes the possibility that a person could have made it from the Fuhrerbunker to Tempelhof Airport. The declassified information indicate that on April 21st, a flight of between 8-10 aircraft left the airport for destinations unknown. Wiki indicates that the last Lufthansa flights also left on the 21st and another on the 23rd (this was shot down).

    Playing with this theory, what are your thoughts on the possibilities of Hitler escaping out of Berlin? Personally...I think there is enough evidence that Hitler died in Berlin by his own hands.....but what the h*ll...let's have fun.
    You'll live, only the best get killed.

    -General Charles de Gaulle

  • #2
    I should add this: There are a few sources that mention a two or three small electric boats that were hidden along the banks of the Spree in Berlin, and that a suggestion was made to Hitler and/or some of his inner circle of the possible use of these craft to escape Berlin. The telly series dismisses the idea of an escape via river as too risky, as the dates of the escape scenario effectively places Russian forces directly on the opposite banks, thus making any craft on the river very visible.

    The aircraft scenario is more plausible. Hanna Reitsch (in company of Ritter Von Greim) flew and landed a small plane in one of the avenues of Berlin, then after a visit with Hitler in the Bunker, took off in another small plane and made it out. This was on April 28, 1945. This would indicate that an escape via aircraft was, while enormously risky, not impossible.

    But.....however Hitler gets out of Berlin....where on Earth does he go from there??
    Last edited by asterix; 25 Nov 15, 11:33.
    You'll live, only the best get killed.

    -General Charles de Gaulle

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    • #3
      My first impression: Hitler dies as it has been told for the past 70 years. My reason? Too many of his inner most circle stayed with him until the very end. They were itching to get out, but many stayed until after Hitler was dead before making their escape attempts. My conclusion is that had Hitler decided on an escape...his most loyal followers would not have scattered as they did, but rather left with him as his support group.....and my guess is that such an entourage of high profile Nazis would not and could not have gone too far without being noticed.
      You'll live, only the best get killed.

      -General Charles de Gaulle

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      • #4
        Well, those deserted homes in Argentina sure were strange in both their location and construction.

        With the tunnel theory it is about 2 miles from the Bunker thru the tunnels to the airport. I am wondering how a feeble Hitler made the 2 miles unless carried or transported somehow.

        I don't think he would have wanted any of his cronies there.
        They would have had to stay to keep up the fake death scene later.

        Interesting about the skull with the bullet hole was a woman.
        So maybe he shot her, then had her body and a fake burned and buried.
        If the one shot fired was into her head... there was no shot to Hitlers.

        Thanks for the thread .
        SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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        • #5
          Originally posted by dgfred View Post
          Well, those deserted homes in Argentina sure were strange in both their location and construction.
          They are strange, but again not impossible. Certainly likely some ex-Nazi wanting to hide or get away for a while could have had those places built. Doesn't mean Hitler himself was there. I do remember hearing on the news when they discovered Nazi relics there.

          Originally posted by dgfred View Post
          With the tunnel theory it is about 2 miles from the Bunker thru the tunnels to the airport. I am wondering how a feeble Hitler made the 2 miles unless carried or transported somehow.
          That struck me as well. Again, not impossible, but broken rocks, train rails and rail ties are not the easiest things to walk along. Add that the place is probably crammed with wounded and frightened civilians seeking shelter. He could have worn a disguise. What had me laughing most is that the investigators are wanting to believe there was a 100 yard long tunnel from the subway to the airport. As if they were implying that Hitler could not have walked or been carried that last 100 yards. If Hitler had made it that far, he could have well walked out in the open that distance when the shelling subsided. As for the tunnel...possible there was some motorized transport to carry him along the tracks?

          Originally posted by dgfred View Post
          I don't think he would have wanted any of his cronies there.
          They would have had to stay to keep up the fake death scene later.
          Possible, but again..considering that some of those cronies knew where a lot of gold and other funds were being hidden and whisked away...he'd want those guys around to help fund his own well being post-Berlin. Food, health, transportation, keeping things secret, etc.

          Originally posted by dgfred View Post
          Interesting about the skull with the bullet hole was a woman.
          So maybe he shot her, then had her body and a fake burned and buried.
          If the one shot fired was into her head... there was no shot to Hitlers.

          Thanks for the thread .
          Yeah, that was too bad about not being able to get DNA for comparison...but I thought their approach was a bit amateurish....almost scam-artist-like. In other words, what we would expect of a sensationalist TV series trying hard to look professional like the Hysterical Channel.

          I'll keep watching though. Glad you like the thread. Next episode they will investigate a possible scuttled U-Boat off the coast near their present location.
          You'll live, only the best get killed.

          -General Charles de Gaulle

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          • #6
            Much elaborate for a two bedroom rock house.

            Have to be high-ranking with wealth/power.

            They did find a false wall at the old subway system... right where it should be.

            He had the funding from one very wealthy follower (Lauder?) that had a false-front business there in Argentina. Plus the home found had running water, electricity, and an amble supple of canned goods.

            It would have gone subway, airport, flight to Southern Spain, U-boat to Argentina, coast to where the homes were found.
            SPORTS FREAK/ PANZERBLITZ COMMANDER/ CC2 COMMANDER

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            • #7
              Originally posted by asterix View Post
              But.....however Hitler gets out of Berlin....where on Earth does he go from there??
              That would be THE major issue, and the best reason for the fact that he didn't try. With no remaining power-base, he would have always been worth less than the reward of turning him in.

              Go where? Japan was still in the war, maybe they looked like a good bet. But how to get there?

              Fly to Turkey, for a start.
              Hey, what happened to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, or Rashid Ali? These were just two of the prominent Muslims in Germany at the end... and the deposed Shah of Iran was on the isle of Mauritius in exile.
              All of those men had serious grievances with the allies, could they or the people they knew have set something up for their good buddy, the Fuhrer?
              "Why is the Rum gone?"

              -Captain Jack

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              • #8
                If Hitler were able to leave the bunker and get to a lake or river it might be possible for him to fly out on a float or seaplane. That could then meet a U-boat in the Baltic or say Norway that transports him to South America, surrendering afterwards. Looking at a map, there are several within a few miles of the bunker.

                As an example of this: On 5/1/45, just days before the war ended, Oberleutnant Wolfgang Klemusch of 3(F) Seeaufklärungs Gruppen 130 based out of Copenhagen flew his BV 138 seaplane to Berlin landing on a lake near the Reichstag shortly after midnight to ferry several VIP's out of the city.
                Two passengers showed up but couldn't identify themselves to his satisfaction so he took ten wounded soldiers instead. He successfully flew back to Copenhagen.
                So, it is very possible that Hitler could conceivably have been flown out of the city by seaplane and transferred to a sub or some other transport to take him to S. America.


                Yes, that's a huge stretch and quite a few mouths to keep closed, but it is at least possible.
                Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 26 Nov 15, 12:28.

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                • #9
                  Another factor to keep in mind; Hitler was one of the richest men in Europe during that war, and before.

                  Typical politician's trick; he had his face on all the stamps, and he collected a royalty for the use of his image. How's that for sneaky?

                  So, with a huge amount of money, certain things would have been possible that don't even involve the military.
                  Were there any direct flights between Switzerland and Turkey at the time?
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                    Another factor to keep in mind; Hitler was one of the richest men in Europe during that war, and before.

                    Typical politician's trick; he had his face on all the stamps, and he collected a royalty for the use of his image. How's that for sneaky?

                    So, with a huge amount of money, certain things would have been possible that don't even involve the military.
                    Yes, true, but I doubt it would be a factor.
                    That wealth was in Reichsmarks.

                    To make it count, Hitler would have needed to start financial operations in, say, Switzerland well in advance, to turn all of that into fungible assets. That's theoretically possible, but it would have required for him to plan his bailout and money exchange back in mid-1944. On the contrary, at that time he still believed fate would be on his side eventually.

                    Naturally he might try to convert his Reichsmarks into Swiss Francs or gold in April 1945. But I strongly suspect a Swiss banker, when offered a couple of trunks of Reichmarks at that time, would have found some Swiss banking regulation that hindered the operation for a while. Say a month or two.
                    Michele

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                    • #11
                      Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                      That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        Another factor to keep in mind; Hitler was one of the richest men in Europe during that war, and before.
                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        So, with a huge amount of money, certain things would have been possible that don't even involve the military.
                        Skorzeny, Bormann and others were involved in various schemes in getting monies stashed and hidden everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised about Switzerland being a place to hide funds at all. Besides setting up rat lines such as Odessa, along with feeling out sympathetic cardinal/bishops from within the Vatican, they also sent huge sums of monies to South America


                        Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                        Were there any direct flights between Switzerland and Turkey at the time?
                        It would make complete sense for many of these flights to go southwards. Perhaps Switzerland, but I think a safer, friendlier place would have been Spain. I don't think I've read of any U-boat pick-ups from Spain going to South America, but I wouldn't say it was impossible. The last flight I mentioned in my first post which left Tempelhof airport on the 23rd of April was shot down over southern Germany. (The Russians finally took the airport on the 28th-29th of April)

                        While the idea of Hitler flying out of Berlin is plausible, the problem I have with this idea is where does he land? Switzerland would be the closest place, but only a temporary stop, I don't think he would have been able to stay there. Does he make a beeline to Spain directly from Germany? Flying north to reach a German held port may have been the quickest way to get onto a U-Boat...but that is a very long trip from there to South America through heavily mined and patrolled waters.

                        A more crackpot idea would have been to fly Hitler to Spain, then from there fly him to South America in a plane specially modified with long range fuel tanks. I'm not even sure if the Germans had a plane capable of that, even with the extra fuel. The FW 200 comes to mind, but it could hardly carry a normal bomb load without breaking it's back.
                        You'll live, only the best get killed.

                        -General Charles de Gaulle

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                        • #13
                          sex change operation, becomes an opera singers lives in Chile till 1985

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by asterix View Post
                            While the idea of Hitler flying out of Berlin is plausible, the problem I have with this idea is where does he land? Switzerland would be the closest place, but only a temporary stop, I don't think he would have been able to stay there. Does he make a beeline to Spain directly from Germany? Flying north to reach a German held port may have been the quickest way to get onto a U-Boat...but that is a very long trip from there to South America through heavily mined and patrolled waters.

                            A more crackpot idea would have been to fly Hitler to Spain, then from there fly him to South America in a plane specially modified with long range fuel tanks. I'm not even sure if the Germans had a plane capable of that, even with the extra fuel. The FW 200 comes to mind, but it could hardly carry a normal bomb load without breaking it's back.
                            Let's say the BV 138 scenario is used. This is a diesel engine seaplane. Hitler and several others board the plane early in May 1945. They fly to Copenhagen where the plane is refueled but Hitler stays aboard so no one other than the crew knows he's there.
                            The plane after servicing takes off again headed for South America. It rendezvous with a U-boat off, say the Azores. With a full fuel load a BV 138C could make about 2,000 miles so it could make the trip.
                            There, it refuels from the sub and continues to S. America where it lands on a river inland. Hitler and his entourage move into hiding supported by others who independently made it along with a compliant S. American government who ignores his presence studiously.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by dgfred View Post
                              Well, those deserted homes in Argentina sure were strange in both their location and construction.

                              With the tunnel theory it is about 2 miles from the Bunker thru the tunnels to the airport. I am wondering how a feeble Hitler made the 2 miles unless carried or transported somehow.

                              I don't think he would have wanted any of his cronies there.
                              They would have had to stay to keep up the fake death scene later.

                              Interesting about the skull with the bullet hole was a woman.
                              So maybe he shot her, then had her body and a fake burned and buried.
                              If the one shot fired was into her head... there was no shot to Hitlers.

                              Thanks for the thread .
                              From the bold part Greg, I wonder how many would have complied? Here is a very probable line of thought for those left behind: "Little 'dolphie is making a run for it and I am supposed to cover his tracks, with my reward for that service being left behind to the tender mercies of the Red Army? Not likely. I may be stuck here but I will sing like a canary to keep my butt alive and in one piece!"

                              Regards,
                              Dennis
                              If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                              Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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