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Italy sits out World War II

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  • #16
    Congratulations. You've just changed the course of history. In what way?

    If Italy sits out the war, the Italian Navy is not a threat to Britain. As a consequence, the Battle of Taranto never happens. No Italian warships are torpedoed in shallow waters.

    The intelligence on the battle was gathered by the German Abwehr, who then conveyed it to the Japanese.

    If Taranto never happened, then consequently the attack on Pearl Harbour doesn't happen as the Japanese don't know it's possible. In terms of strategy, all the IJN can do is force a major Jutland-style battle somewhere in the Pacific. Such a battle could also involve Britain, France and Holland. But nevertheless, the USA still declares war on Japan. Would the Japanese quickly realise they've bitten off more than they can chew?
    Hitler played Golf. His bunker shot was a hole in one.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sign&Print Name View Post

      The intelligence on the battle was gathered by the German Abwehr, who then conveyed it to the Japanese.

      If Taranto never happened, then consequently the attack on Pearl Harbour doesn't happen as the Japanese don't know it's possible. In terms of strategy, all the IJN can do is force a major Jutland-style battle somewhere in the Pacific. Such a battle could also involve Britain, France and Holland. But nevertheless, the USA still declares war on Japan. Would the Japanese quickly realize they've bitten off more than they can chew?
      From what I understand there is quite a bit of debate about how much the RN attack at Taranto influenced the IJN's planning for its attack on Pearl Harbor.

      I think that the Japanese would have attacked Pearl Harbor regardless of whether the RN did their attack at Taranto.

      The biggest inspiration for the IJN attack on Pearl Harbor was their attack on the Imperial Russian Navy at Port Arthur in 1904. This Sneak attack started the Russo-Japanese War.

      Taranto probably influenced how the attack was made, not the decision to make the attack.

      Assuming the IJN is going to attack Pearl Harbor and the RN attack on the Italian Navy at Taranto had some influence on it. What would the Japanese learn? The IJN attack was a much larger operation. The Pearl Harbor attack was a daytime attack, Taranto a night operation.

      The only big thing I can think of is that if properly modified you can use torpedoes in shallower water than previously thought. And the Japanese did modify their torpedoes to use in shallow water.

      Approximately 270 IJN aircraft carried bombs or torpedoes for the Pearl Harbor attack. Only 40 of these had torpedoes. The rest had bombs.

      If the Japanese had been unable to use torpedoes those 40 aircraft would have been armed with bombs instead. It is of course debatable how much of a difference that would have made. With its shallow water a near miss by a bomb would do more damage than in open water.
      Last edited by 17thfabn; 08 Oct 15, 11:45.
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
      Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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      • #18
        Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
        I'm curious. Did the British have better luck with their torpedoes than the USN did for the first part of the war?
        They started combat use 2.4 years earlier & figured out thheir problems that much sooner. Everyone had trouble with heir peacetime torpedo designs. the US was the last major naval power to use theirs in war & the last to figure things out.

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