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Was Goerdeler, Beck, and Stauffenberg too naive?

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  • Was Goerdeler, Beck, and Stauffenberg too naive?

    I think most of us here watched the movie Valkyrie. What if Stauffenberg's bomb did kill Hitler? Would the New Germany with Carl Goerdeler as Chancellor, Ludwig Beck as Joint Chief, and Erwin Rommel still able to lead German Army able to negotiate a reasonable surrender for Germany?

    I haven't read any history book about this, but there is a theory and thought that even if Hitler is killed; Ally may not make peace with Germany anyway. This was also presented in a movie call Desert Fox by James Mason. Field Marshal von Rundstedt told Rommel that your plan is doomed from the beginning. Why should Ally make peace? Victory is within their site. They actually would prefer Hitler not killed, because he is destroying Germany much faster than Ally could hope for. If Germany actually put someone who knows what he is doing, that really would be bad for the Ally.

    Does this thought bear any possibility?
    Nice is heavy on my mind.
    I pray and wish the best for France.

  • #2
    No. The allies were committed to unconditional surrender by that point and the German armed forces were irrevocably broken and beaten.

    The new government could have saved millions of lives by surrendering immediately but I doubt they would have.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
      No. The allies were committed to unconditional surrender by that point and the German armed forces were irrevocably broken and beaten.

      The new government could have saved millions of lives by surrendering immediately but I doubt they would have.
      I agree. I understand that one of the proposed conditions of the would-be usurpers , had they achieved power,was the reversion of Germany's borders to those of 1914.

      Little chance of that, I think.
      "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
      Samuel Johnson.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by AdrianE View Post
        The new government could have saved millions of lives by surrendering immediately but I doubt they would have.
        Immediately - no. They would have tried negotiating. They would probably have been surprised and frustrated that nobody would take their "reasonable" proposals. For a while.

        But, some time earlier than May 1945? Yes, I think they would have surrendered. So some of the destruction and losses visited on Germany in the last 8 months of war, or so, would have been spared. Maybe they would have done so by October 1944, or anyway before the spring enemy offensives, and would not have wasted German lives in winter offensives.
        Michele

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        • #5
          According to Field Marshall von Rundstedt testimony at Nuremburg trial, he said the Army and the people still would not follow the new government. Although many conspirator were his close friends, he was firmly against it, but he did not turn in any of his comrades, as he was just as critical of Hitler. His view was this would just lead to a civil war in Germany.

          He was dismissed of his posts many time for his disagreement with Hitler, especially at Dunkirk.
          Nice is heavy on my mind.
          I pray and wish the best for France.

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          • #6
            They were naive, more ruthlessness would have helped them. They would have needed to kill every big party functionary they got in their hands and fast. Starting with Goebbels, Himler, Goering, Borman. Leave no other centre of power than army in place. Then even if army did not choose to follow their lead, there would have been no other option than military government.

            New government of course had dire situation on their hand, but even unconditional surrender then would have not been as bad as continuing war. Most of country was still intact, and enemy would not need to fight their way in. Probably even Soviets would have been less inhumane conquorors than what happened in OTL.

            And maybe fast retreat on more defensible lines, and threat to use chemical weapons could have brought allies to negotiation table. As Germans then had quite potent chemical agents, like sarin and tabun....

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            • #7
              IIRC, Stauffenberg wanted a double whammy. Both Hitler and Himmler dead. So what would've happened if he'd succeeded?
              Hitler played Golf. His bunker shot was a hole in one.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Sign&Print Name View Post
                IIRC, Stauffenberg wanted a double whammy. Both Hitler and Himmler dead. So what would've happened if he'd succeeded?
                Interesting question - for the what-if subforum, though.
                Michele

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