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3 North American prehistoric mammals survive

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  • #16
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    The fact that by the time people got around to hunting it in mass there were the beginnings of nature conservation going on. There was also a monetary component that compelled some to protect the animals as in zoos and such.
    They weren't in anyone's way.
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    • #17
      Any evidence that human population dropped after the disappearance of the mega fauna as did the population of Easter Island after the trees were wiped out?
      Back on topic,there would have been the possibility of domestication and use for ancient civil engineering projects and warfare.
      Wack tac mac hey.
      Regards.
      Grishnak.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by grishnak View Post
        Any evidence that human population dropped after the disappearance of the mega fauna as did the population of Easter Island after the trees were wiped out?
        Apart from the disappearance of the Clovis culture, none that I am aware of. The Americas had no shortage of resources, even after the megafauna were in terminal decline.

        Originally posted by grishnak
        Back on topic,there would have been the possibility of domestication and use for ancient civil engineering projects and warfare.
        I think the only way that could have happened would have been if humans never crossed over Beringia.
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        • #19
          Well, the Camelops could have been useful to the Aztecs, but in a limited way.
          Those people had the wheel, but made no constructive use of it, as incredible as that sounds.

          I just don't see this as being much of a boon to the Native Americans. They were lacking much more that good beasts of burden.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            I just don't see this as being much of a boon to the Native Americans. They were lacking much more that good beasts of burden.
            Don't know about the camelops, but a felled mammoth or mastodon would provide a lot more meat for a village than a bison. They weighed five to ten times as much in the case of the mastodon, and ten to twenty times as much in the case of the mammoth.
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            • #21
              In the epoch when herds of buffaloes covered entire counties, exactly how did Red Indians go about hunting one without horses or guns?

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              • #22
                According to wiki the usual method was to stampede large herds either trapping some in corals or running some off precipices.
                Wack tac mac hey.
                Regards.
                Grishnak.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
                  What would be the effects of the non-extinction in North America of the Wooly Mammoth, Americian Mastadon, and the Camelops? Let's say for this thread the natural range of the Wooly Mammoth is in Canada's praries to the west and an extreme south of parts of North Dakota, Montana, and perhaps Washington.
                  As others have mentioned that pretty much implies no humans in North or South America. Which in turn implies no Siberia-Alaska land bridge.

                  It also means that the predators of such beasts survive which might make colonization of the Americas more challenging and in the case of the Spanish much less profitable as there would be no indigenous cultures to exploit.

                  The early expeditions would return with tales of a land full of giant monsters.

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                  • #24
                    The Spanish could have colonized the Caribbean, but the presence of just the Short Faced Cave Bear, could have discouraged going into the mainlands. Without human populations to enslave and utilize, just how interested would Ferdinand and Isabella be?

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                    • #25
                      Assuming there's still gold there in this AT, south and central America would have still been of interest,

                      absence of indigenous population may have meant earlier and larger import of African workers to work the mines, perhaps even forced migration of Europeans.

                      Even as it was Spanish interest in North America was limited.
                      Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                      Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                      • #26
                        There was a little bit of gold on Hispaniola and Cuba. The trouble was finding it! The poor natives let the Spanish see them wearing gold ornaments. The Spanish MIGHT have found it if they looked hard. The gold and silver mines in the Americas were not convenient to the Spanish landing and finding it.

                        The colonization of the Americas would have taken a long time before they would have been self sustaining. Without the Native American Population being here already, the Spanish could have found some African, Polynesian and East Asians along the coastal islands. There is weak evidence that these peoples visited in the past.

                        Actually Europe would not grown so large in population without certain American agricultural crops. Maize, potatoes, peppers, certain beans, cacao, tomatoes, and some lesser known crops like Quinoa, would not have been domesticated.

                        Pruitt
                        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                          There was a little bit of gold on Hispaniola and Cuba. The trouble was finding it! The poor natives let the Spanish see them wearing gold ornaments. The Spanish MIGHT have found it if they looked hard. The gold and silver mines in the Americas were not convenient to the Spanish landing and finding it.
                          Well gold was the original "draw" - from about 1545 onward silver became the main interest.

                          Not on the islands so much, but along the coastlines of south and central America.

                          The original method was to simply impose quota on the natives and let them sort it out, with no natives some other method would have to be found.

                          Of course with no natives the question does arise how the colonists would know/find the location of the deposits, as you correctly point out.

                          The colonization of the Americas would have taken a long time before they would have been self sustaining. Without the Native American Population being here already, the Spanish could have found some African, Polynesian and East Asians along the coastal islands. There is weak evidence that these peoples visited in the past.

                          Actually Europe would not grown so large in population without certain American agricultural crops. Maize, potatoes, peppers, certain beans, tomatoes, and some lesser known crops like Quinoa, would not have been domesticated.

                          Pruitt
                          That sounds plausible yes.

                          Do we have historical examples of Europeans landing on a large *unpopulated* landmass ?
                          Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                          Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                            Well gold was the original "draw" - from about 1545 onward silver became the main interest.

                            Not on the islands so much, but along the coastlines of south and central America.

                            Do we have historical examples of Europeans landing on a large *unpopulated* landmass ?
                            The problem is the gold was on the wrong coast (Pacific) or in the interior (Mexico). The Gold fields in Brazil are in the Amazon basin and Minas Gerais.

                            We have evidence that Europeans settled in North America before the Asians got here. It was by travel along the ice sheets. Arctic Foxes do it all the time.

                            Pruitt
                            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                              (...) Arctic Foxes do it all the time.

                              Pruitt
                              Never knew that - the things you learn at the ACG
                              Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                              Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                              • #30
                                They did some DNA tests on what they thought were isolated Foxes. It turns out they were descendents from at least three lines of Foxes from Europe and North America! Polar Bears also can and do migrate great distances over the ice. Polar vessels can see them miles offshore heading wherever they want to go.

                                Those Science Daily and Scientific American articles can come in handy!

                                Pruitt
                                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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