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Summer 1944 Soviet vs. Summer 1941 Axis

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  • #16
    I am modifying..the Mot. ID got their tank battalion in 1942, after too many incidents in Barbarossa's Panzergruppes (eg. SS-Reich at Borodino) where the mot. ID suffered from lack of armor support. Given the 50:50 status of 1944 Soviet armor (instead of, something like 75:25), it is not unreasonable to see modifications.

    The Stug arm was nascent in 1941, and much smaller than it was to become.

    Originally posted by The Purist View Post
    If you change the German OOB it is no longer the 1941 Wehrmacht now, is it?

    In any case the Red Army had tanks set aside for the infantry in 1941 and the Germans did not feel the need to strip tanks out of the pz divisions, which they could not afford to do anyway. It would have meant further weakening the service/maintenace assets within divisions and corps, strain the logistic pipeline and reduce the over all readiness rates. At best you could assign the available StuG III batteries to the motorised divisions (still too few), but again, why?

    After all, 960 T-34, 600 Kv-1 and ~300 KV-II, with properly trained crews, 1944 organisation, logistics, command, etc. are likely to create chaos amongst any German units these formations are committed against. It is not really a contest.
    As the RKKA did in 1944, I can see most of the T-34s being concentrated in the armored corps and most of the KV-1/KV-II being in 'Guards armor brigades'. The Infantry's armor will get most of the lights.

    Depends; The German Divisions of 1941 were much better than those of subsequent years and usually beat off attacks by soviet armor. They would usually cave in, however, against a set-piece attack.


    • #17
      The RKKA in 44' was organized around a long war of attrition while the Wehrmacht in 41' was still organized around short wars with most of their combat power accrued in lengthy training investments and stockpiling of equipment. In contrast, the mature Soviet system could attack all year long and quickly replace losses without much deterioration while the German system had very long lead times between offensive actions of note.

      Historically, the Wehrmacht steadily deteriorated as the months went by, reaching culmination point in Nov 1941. Those 900,000 casualties along with irreplaceable losses of equipment impaired them permanently. They then hit a long recovery period from Dec to about April 1941. They were weakest in Dec 41- March 1942, with very low armor holdings due to misplaced industrial policy.

      Originally posted by ShAA View Post
      Oh, I don't doubt there wouldn't have been the same victories, but I'm questioning the idea that the much better organised Red Army still had any chances to crack in 1941 vs OTL when it didn't crack. At least this is how I understood your phrase "until one side breaks".
      So I see some early Wehrmacht victories based on deception and operational coups but eventually the front will stabilize as they start struggling to hold on as their losses mount. The RKKA 44' would not suffer from such an impediment, and will eventually get the upper hand.


      • #18
        As far as air power goes, I think there will be a situation where the LW would have to fight for local superiority but they will usually get it if they really need it. The VVS will be around, harassing ground formations.

        With the RKKA free to attack where they want to, the LW will be heavily relied as a firefighter and be distracted from its main goal of supporting the panzergruppes and the points of main effort.

        The Panzergruppes will fight to retain all their units, but they will more and more lose assets to support mobile defense of other armies.

        The Tank Armies will suffer badly when they attack German panzer divisions but be tough as nails in the defense.

        The German infantry divisions will have a lot more problems overcoming rifle corps in the attack but will fare better when they defend.

        The Soviet armored corps will be capable of reliably creating penetrations on German infantry divisions.


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