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What if the 2011 UK riots had gone on?

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  • What if the 2011 UK riots had gone on?

    The Plod could not cope with the scale of the August 2011 riots across the UK.

    Apparently Cameron came within hours of ordering out 'the troops' and imposing a nationwide curfew.

    Who would have been the first troops patrolling Tottenham, Brixton, Birmingham, Bristol, Manchester etc: the Terriers, the Black Watch or even the Gurkhas?

    Could looters literally have ended up being shot dead? Was there enough 5.56mm available to be issued to cope with such a nationwide outbreak of criminality?



    Apart from the Gurkhas who proved their mettle already at Amritsar, would White British troops even obey an order to open fire on 'unarmed' civilians?


  • #2
    One can also speculate: what would have happened if Thatcher had not backed down over the Poll Tax and the 1990 riots had escalated out of control?!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mala4_ElCcE

    What is the current Protocol if a UK PM declares a state of National Emergency and Civil Insurrection?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mifletz View Post
      One can also speculate: what would have happened if Thatcher had not backed down over the Poll Tax and the 1990 riots had escalated out of control?
      You could dream about both if you want, but both are separate beasts.

      On was opportunistic looting without any leaders or agenda.

      The other was a groundswell movement against a tax they thought incredibly unfair with all sorts of backing and leadership.



      I know you like 'what if's' but 'what if' you read something on your latest brain fart before you posted it?
      Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

      That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mifletz View Post
        One can also speculate: what would have happened if Thatcher had not backed down over the Poll Tax and the 1990 riots had escalated out of control?!
        Poll taxes never work out well in Britain --- I really thought they'd learned that in 1381!

        Same exact thing happened.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mifletz View Post
          Was there enough 5.56mm available to be issued to cope with such a nationwide outbreak of criminality?

          Apart from the Gurkhas who proved their mettle already at Amritsar, would White British troops even obey an order to open fire on 'unarmed' civilians?
          Have you ever been in Great Britain? Many "white" British troops aren't white. I saw a guard at Buckingham Palace a few years ago from the Paras, and he was black.
          It doesn't take many rounds to end a riot. Think about it, why do people riot? Most don't do it to correct injustices, they do it becaue it's fun! They get to act like fools, break windows, steal expensive stuff and gang up and beat up defenseless people. All you have to do is identify a few ringleaders...the ones who are yelling and urging on everyone else. A few headshots and all the people around them get splattered with blood, bone and grey matter. All the people there for the "fun" decide that it's not fun anymore and go home to watch the TV that they stole yesterday. You now have a much smaller, more manageable group to arrest or chase out of the streets.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by johns624 View Post
            Have you ever been in Great Britain? Many "white" British troops aren't white. I saw a guard at Buckingham Palace a few years ago from the Paras, and he was black.
            It doesn't take many rounds to end a riot. Think about it, why do people riot? Most don't do it to correct injustices, they do it becaue it's fun! They get to act like fools, break windows, steal expensive stuff and gang up and beat up defenseless people. All you have to do is identify a few ringleaders...the ones who are yelling and urging on everyone else. A few headshots and all the people around them get splattered with blood, bone and grey matter. All the people there for the "fun" decide that it's not fun anymore and go home to watch the TV that they stole yesterday. You now have a much smaller, more manageable group to arrest or chase out of the streets.
            Disagree.

            I've seen crowds near rioting, and very scared police.

            And why? Because the whole deal is, there are a LOT more rioters. If they become angry and overrun the police, they will kill them all.

            I always thought that too, why don't they just shoot them? How about snipers on buildings looking for the ringleaders, the guys with Molotov cocktails in their hands? That's what they did in Maiden, in Kiev. Shot some rioters from the roofs.

            As we see, it worked out very, very, very poorly and now they have a civil war.

            First the huge crowd of thousands kills the few hundred police, then they have a civil war. Normal progression.

            Now I understand that the policing game is to keep a lid on it at all costs, if they possibly can. Sometimes it gets away from them.

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            • #7
              Well, there's at least two types of rioting. There are the political riots/demonstrations that brought down the Iron Curtain. Participants in those know why they're there and have a purpose. I'm talking about the LA Rodney King/Ferguson type riots where people just need an excuse for acting stupid.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Phebe View Post
                Disagree.

                I've seen crowds near rioting, and very scared police.

                And why? Because the whole deal is, there are a LOT more rioters. If they become angry and overrun the police, they will kill them all.

                I always thought that too, why don't they just shoot them? How about snipers on buildings looking for the ringleaders, the guys with Molotov cocktails in their hands? That's what they did in Maiden, in Kiev. Shot some rioters from the roofs.

                As we see, it worked out very, very, very poorly and now they have a civil war.

                First the huge crowd of thousands kills the few hundred police, then they have a civil war. Normal progression.

                Now I understand that the policing game is to keep a lid on it at all costs, if they possibly can. Sometimes it gets away from them.
                It also depends what the cause of the rioting is and how serious you are about putting it down. The maiden example was a political uprising against the government, the sort of thing that can and did quickly spiral into revolution. Things like the UK riots or what happened in Missouri earlier this year are just mindless violence for the sake of mindless violence. People are willing to die for a political cause, not so much for a new TV or new shoes.
                "Artillery lends dignity to what might otherwise be a vulgar brawl." - Frederick the Great

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                • #9
                  If the thin Plod line at Grosvenor Square in 1968
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLRL6qYSDuI
                  had given way and the rioters had broken in to the US Embassy with the intention to ignite and raze it, then the US Marines would have defended it with their silver-plated Colt 45s and their could have been a bodycount worth talking about!
                  Last edited by Mifletz; 29 Oct 14, 15:37.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mifletz View Post
                    If the thin Plod line at Grosvenor Square in 1968
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLRL6qYSDuI
                    the rioters had broken in to the US Embassy with the intention to ignite and raze it,
                    source for this claim ?

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                    • #11
                      It wouldn't matter. The rioters would tire of their protests, the police (and military if necessary) would break up and arrest the leaders.
                      Without cohesive leadership and some sort of plan riots always succumb to the police who are organized and well led.

                      This is a case, as Black Sabbath put it:

                      If you listen to fools, the mob rules.

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                      • #12
                        The police initially lost control in these riots, no doubt. A key turning point was the transfer of police from Scotland, mainly Glasgow. The Glasgow police do not mess about and the sight of these guys armed with a big stick was one notch down from soldiers on the streets. If that had not worked quickly I do think the troops would have been turned out and rightly so. I do not think there would have been much hesitation about firing at scum bag looters at this stage and the public would have been glad someone was fighting back.
                        Ne Obliviscaris, Sans Peur

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                          Have you ever been in Great Britain? Many "white" British troops aren't white. I saw a guard at Buckingham Palace a few years ago from the Paras, and he was black.
                          I hope this is not a race theory. Pretty sure you need to be a citizen to join the UK army, so any 'colored' troop would be English. To my understanding it would be quite hard for anyone from another country to enlist. However, I know there are special cases, and I am not sure what the situation is in ex-colonies I don't know how likely they would be shoot rioters.

                          Also, lived in Belfast; British troops are just fine shooting unarmed civilians.
                          Wisdom is personal

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Karri View Post
                            I hope this is not a race theory. Pretty sure you need to be a citizen to join the UK army, so any 'colored' troop would be English. To my understanding it would be quite hard for anyone from another country to enlist. However, I know there are special cases, and I am not sure what the situation is in ex-colonies I don't know how likely they would be shoot rioters.

                            Also, lived in Belfast; British troops are just fine shooting unarmed civilians.
                            What are you talking about? Did you even read the post that I was responding to? The OP was talking about "white" British troops. I responded that not all British troops were white. And by the way, no you don't have to be a British citizen to join the army. There are plenty of Jamaicans, Fijians, Australians and a whole host of other countries.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Karri View Post
                              I hope this is not a race theory. Pretty sure you need to be a citizen to join the UK army, so any 'colored' troop would be English. To my understanding it would be quite hard for anyone from another country to enlist.
                              Citizens of the UK and the Commonwealth nations can join the British army, as can citizens of the Republic of Ireland.

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