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Vladimir Lenin thrown in jail in 1917

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  • Vladimir Lenin thrown in jail in 1917

    Instead of the Germans putting Vladimir Lenin on a train in 1917 he is arrested.

    Either the Swiss authorities see him as a dangerous radical. Or the Germans after agreeing to send him to Russia change their minds and decide to jail this dangerous communist.

    Or possibly some agent takes him out. It could be an agent of the Russian Imperial government or the latter post czar Russian provisional government.

    Or perhaps an agent of the British Government or the Masons, the Rothschild or Rockerfeller families or even the Knights Templar. You never know when those pesky Zoroastrians will pop up.

    One way or another Lenin is stopped from getting to Russia in 1917. If needed the space aliens stop him!

    How would that effect events in Russia after the fall of the Czar? Would some one else lead the communists to eventual triumph in post imperial Russia? Or was Lenin the indispensable man for the communist in that turbulent time?
    Last edited by 17thfabn; 30 Jun 14, 19:47.
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
    Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

  • #2
    Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
    Instead of the Germans putting Vladimir Lenin on a train in 1917 he is arrested.

    Either the Swiss authorities see him as a dangerous radical. Or the Germans after agreeing to send him to Russia change their minds and decide to jail this dangerous communist.

    Or possibly some agent takes him out. It could be an agent of the Russian Imperial government or the latter post czar Russian provisional government.

    Or perhaps an agent of the British Government or the Masons, the Rothschild or Rockerfeller families or even the Knights Templar. You never know when those pesky Zoroastrians will pop up.

    One way or another Lenin is stopped from getting to Russia in 1917. If needed the space aliens stop him!
    Great WI! As you can see by the number of replies, people prefer well-trodden paths to anything which might lead them to something new and interesting.

    I'll change the sequence of the questions for the convenience of my answer:

    Would some one else lead the communists to eventual triumph in post imperial Russia? Or was Lenin the indispensable man for the communist in that turbulent time?
    Speaking of Bolsheviks, Lenin was truly indispensable. When he arrived at Petrograd in April 1917, there were no significant members in party who argued to confront the Provisional Government and to subvert it by empowering the Soviets while gaining leading positions in them at the same time. This was a risky strategy of a political visionary, and there was no other person in the party with such strong political will and power of persuasion. Nobody else could've spent a month tirelessly persuading his fellow party members to follow his line, which seemed to go against all their political logic and expectations.


    How would that effect events in Russia after the fall of the Czar?
    I'd say the events would've unfolded the same way they did up to August 1917. The anti-war and anti-government demonstrations of late June-early July would've happened anyway. Instead of banning just the Bolsheviks, Kerensky would've banned them plus a number of other organisations/troublemakers, with the same effect. In my opinion, Kornilov's coup of late August 1917 would've had a higher chance of succeeding as the Bolsheviks played a major role in rallying the Soviets and thwarting his attempt to impose a military dictatorship.

    In short, without Lenin, Russia would've become something like Franco's Spain with a shorter and less bloody Civil War as there would've been no intervention of foreign powers. Russia would've probably emerged as one of the victors in the Great War, but it would've received very little in compensation for its huge sacrifices, if anything at all.
    www.histours.ru

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    • #3
      I seem to remember a number of non-persons (in Soviet History) who were already in Russia...without Lenin someone else could have stepped forward...Trotsky may have provided the leadership, more respected and on the ground.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by LtCol View Post
        I seem to remember a number of non-persons (in Soviet History) who were already in Russia...without Lenin someone else could have stepped forward...Trotsky may have provided the leadership, more respected and on the ground.
        Actually, Trotsky was detained in Halifax, Nova Scotia when his ship from New York to London made a port call.
        The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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        • #5
          Originally posted by LtCol View Post
          I seem to remember a number of non-persons (in Soviet History) who were already in Russia...without Lenin someone else could have stepped forward...Trotsky may have provided the leadership, more respected and on the ground.


          Trotsky joined the Bolsheviks at the last moment and he kept jumping from one group to another in 1917, vacillating between different socialist political platforms. He was an able organiser and a firebrand orator, but he was not a popular leader and definitely not a visionary who could work with determination towards his goal.
          www.histours.ru

          Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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          • #6
            Originally posted by marktwain View Post
            Actually, Trotsky was detained in Halifax, Nova Scotia when his ship from New York to London made a port call.
            Yep, but he was rather quickly released at the request of the Provisional Government.
            www.histours.ru

            Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ShAA View Post
              In short, without Lenin, Russia would've become something like Franco's Spain with a shorter and less bloody Civil War as there would've been no intervention of foreign powers. Russia would've probably emerged as one of the victors in the Great War, but it would've received very little in compensation for its huge sacrifices, if anything at all.
              Good call, and sounds better for everyone involved, even the Germans in the long run.. but those guys have never learned to be a gracious looser.
              In fact, I suspect they still aren't.

              But, what "compensation"are you talking about?
              A nice fat check drawn on the Bank of England, suitable for a Kingdom of Mercenaries?

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