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A Reverse Dieppe: Germans take Dover

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  • A Reverse Dieppe: Germans take Dover

    From Calais to Dover is only 21 miles.

    Is there any way 1939-42 that the Germans could have covertly assembled a landing force large enough to do a reverse Dieppe: A 'limited reconnaissance in force', surprise and take, hold and destroy the port of Dover for a few days and then retreat in good order ( ie 40%< casualties)?

    It would require 6000 top troops, plus an airborne component, plenty of Rhine barges, flat as millpond conditions, long range artillery, and oodles of Luftwaffe cover and U boat traps and mines to keep the RAF & RN at bay


  • #2
    Nope. See the Sealion stickies.
    The Purist

    Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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    • #3
      No. Just assembling the landing craft would have gotten noticed. From there, a crossing would take several hours to complete and as the Channel is patrolled by the RN and RAF any sizable movement of landing forces is going to get noticed. Once it does, its finished.

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      • #4
        Wipeout

        Anyone remember The Ventures?

        Regards
        Scott Fraser
        Ignorance is not the lack of knowledge. It is the refusal to learn.

        A contentedly cantankerous old fart

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        • #5
          Scott, ...

          Originally posted by Scott Fraser View Post
          Anyone remember The Ventures?

          Regards
          Scott Fraser


          ... the Surfaris wrote and recorded "Wipeout", the Ventures merely borrowed it.

          If you look closely, over Frankie's shoulder, you'll see a Marinefährprahm sinking, & von Lewinski jumping over the side!

          Last edited by Marmat; 08 Jun 14, 15:47.
          "I am Groot"
          - Groot

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          • #6
            Maybe the pinnacle of German military engineering can come to the rescue and they cross in a combination of these:







            After all, the Top Gear guys managed it in a Nissan pick up truck...

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            • #7
              I can see a raid crossing in September, if the slow transport like the river barges are left out. Concentrate the small portion that was fast & seaworthy enough to cross in a night and a raid can get ashore.

              But, the Safais hit tune would certainly be the appropriate theme song a few hours after sun rise.

              If Hitler misreads British resolve and decides to teach his generals a lesson by stampeding the Brits into a armistice this way, then such a misadventure might be launched. Discard the Sealion plan and go with the Puddle Kitten option

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              • #8
                Why do it?
                Cymru am Byth

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Kevinmeath View Post
                  Why do it?

                  Why, so the Home Guard can test their smith guns of course!
                  Attached Files
                  The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by marktwain View Post
                    Why, so the Home Guard can test their smith guns of course!
                    Not to mention their Northover Projectors:



                    Blacker bombards



                    And an assortment of other oddities I'm sure...

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                    • #11
                      I personally don't think Jerry would have stood a hope in hell. They lacked the sort of craft suitable to take soldiers to the beach.

                      Google - British anti-invasion plans of world war two.

                      There was more than the guys at 'Warmington-upon-Sea' for the Germans to consider.

                      As for an attack on Dover, well there was some heavy coastal artillery and railway guns that could have been called upon. By shortly after Dunkirk British factories were churning out tanks at a greater rate than the Germans and a similar picture began to arise regarding aircraft production.

                      Immediately after Dunkirk would have been the Germans' best chance, but as I have said, the Germans didn't really have suitable landing craft/barges. Coupled to that was indecision on the part of Hitler and the black ops. misinformation and propaganda that swung into action, including rumours that the German invaders would be cooked in their assault craft as the British would lay a carpet of floating and burning fuel offshore. This was by and large a lie. But it went over so well that it is believed by many Germans even to this day.
                      Last edited by Wooden Wonder; 08 Jun 14, 22:45.

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                      • #12
                        The Germans don't stand a chance. Did you know that over 18,000 Northover Projectors were issued to the Home Guard? 18,000 bottle tossing guns! The Germans are doomed!
                        I suggest shooting pints of beer at them from them. The Germans will shortly be too drunk to invade further!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                          The Germans don't stand a chance. Did you know that over 18,000 Northover Projectors were issued to the Home Guard? 18,000 bottle tossing guns! The Germans are doomed!
                          I suggest shooting pints of beer at them from them. The Germans will shortly be too drunk to invade further!
                          Plus my granny had a couple of crates of Molotov Cocktails awaiting any Panzers that had the temerity to desecrate these hallowed shores!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Wooden Wonder View Post
                            I personally don't think Jerry would have stood a hope in hell. They lacked the sort of craft suitable to take soldiers to the beach.

                            Google - British anti-invasion plans of world war two.

                            There was more than the guys at 'Warmington-upon-Sea' for the Germans to consider.

                            As for an attack on Dover, well there was some heavy coastal artillery and railway guns that could have been called upon. By shortly after Dunkirk British factories were churning out tanks at a greater rate than the Germans and a similar picture began to arise regarding aircraft production.

                            Immediately after Dunkirk would have been the Germans' best chance, but as I have said, the Germans didn't really have suitable landing craft/barges. Coupled to that was indecision on the part of Hitler and the black ops. misinformation and propaganda that swung into action, including rumours that the German invaders would be cooked in their assault craft as the British would lay a carpet of floating and burning fuel offshore. This was by and large a lie. But it went over so well that it is believed by many Germans even to this day.

                            Just for interest, on 20 June, at a meeting with Keitel & Jodl, Raeder reported that the Kriegsmarine had no suitable landing vessels, but hoped to have assembled 45 barges within the next two weeks.

                            On 29 June, he was presented with instructions from OKH that he must prepare a plan for the landing of 13 divisions (approx 250,000 men) over a 200 mile front between Ramsgate & Lyme Bay, with a second, follow up, wave less than ten days later.

                            Oh, hum. No wonder Sealion is off limits!!!

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                            • #15
                              Yes, and didn't those few barges also receive some attention from RAF medium bombers - albeit at some cost to themselves from Flak and Me109s?

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