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What if Operation Unthinkable was launched?

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  • Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
    It's not the lack of roads, it's the lack of ports, followed by the need for a Redball Express on a limited road network. The Redball Express worked up to a point because northern France had a decent road network which could be designated military one-way roads, creating a loop.
    There are a number of ports and anchorages all along the Adriatic coast. The US could easily expand those to meet their needs as well as use the anchorages to simply shuttle materials ashore if dock space were limited.

    During WW 2 the US cleared and opened dozens of wrecked ports, even expanding their capacity. The US and Britain built two complete artificial harbors in Normandy.
    With Italy so close it is also possible for the Western forces to ship supplies there and then move them to Yugoslavia via smaller craft rather than bring freighters in.

    Its not like the Balkans are a wilderness. They have roads, railroads, and such throughout the area.

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    • Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
      There are a number of ports and anchorages all along the Adriatic coast. The US could easily expand those to meet their needs as well as use the anchorages to simply shuttle materials ashore if dock space were limited.

      During WW 2 the US cleared and opened dozens of wrecked ports, even expanding their capacity. The US and Britain built two complete artificial harbors in Normandy.
      With Italy so close it is also possible for the Western forces to ship supplies there and then move them to Yugoslavia via smaller craft rather than bring freighters in.

      Its not like the Balkans are a wilderness. They have roads, railroads, and such throughout the area.
      Cherbourg, a medium port, took how long to restore? Brest? On the Adriatic there are Trieste, Split, Koper, Rijeka and Durres. These were all wrecked during WW2 by either the Allies or the Germans (or both). The Mulberries for Normandy were preplanned, not impromptu affairs and one was destroyed by a storm. And there was a decided air superiority for the Allies in Normandy. The Balkans may not be a wilderness, but there's a significant coastal mountain range and a relatively weak road network compared to western Europe.

      Btw, what year are you considering for this version of OP U?

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      • If you haven't guessed it by now T.A. is ruled by two rules in life.

        1. he is never wrong
        2. His world view trumps all logic, facts and figures on any subject. No amount of information can make him change his acquired views on anything and I mean anything.

        If he thinks he is right, then in his own mind, he is right and nothing you say or do will change that. That's the way it is.
        www.wwiii1946.blogspot.com
        http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...pf_rd_i=507846

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        • Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
          Cherbourg, a medium port, took how long to restore? Brest? On the Adriatic there are Trieste, Split, Koper, Rijeka and Durres. These were all wrecked during WW2 by either the Allies or the Germans (or both). The Mulberries for Normandy were preplanned, not impromptu affairs and one was destroyed by a storm. And there was a decided air superiority for the Allies in Normandy. The Balkans may not be a wilderness, but there's a significant coastal mountain range and a relatively weak road network compared to western Europe.

          Btw, what year are you considering for this version of OP U?
          Cherbourg was, by German standards, thoroughly wrecked. Unfortunately, Rear Admiral Walter Hennecke, who got a Knight's Cross from Hitler for his efforts too block the harbor knew little of marine salvage and did a less than thorough and sloppy job.

          It took US and British salvage crews 28 days to clear the mines in the harbor (the Germans dumped all the sea mines they had stockpiled there in the harbor along with placing lots of booby traps ashore). US salvage crews found a set of the German plans in an office. Those showed that the Germans were thorough but amateurish.
          One of the first ship wrecks cleared was a 17,000 ton whale factory ship that presented no problems and was cleared in less than a week. In fact, the US and British crews cleared several pre-war wrecks that were in the harbor just being thorough.
          In all, the first ships anchored in Cherbourg in under 60 days and the port was cleared sufficiently to allow ships to dock in less than 90.

          At Naples in Italy, an important first port on the mainland, US salvage crews cleared sufficient wreckage that the first ships were docking 14 days after salvage operations (under fire no less) began. Salvage crews also had to deal with a number of Allied ships being hit by Luftwaffe attacks and such as well there.

          Le Havre was a more difficult port than Cherbourg. It has a 24 foot tidal zone and uses locks for the inner harbor. These were damaged along with much of the port a few weeks before D-Day when the RAF dropped Tallboy bombs all over the harbor followed by a thorough bombing.
          The outer harbor was quickly cleared and in less than two weeks ships could anchor out and move supplies ashore by barge or lighter.
          Repair of the inner harbor took longer but by December 1944 Le Havre was handling more cargo than it could pre-war.

          Basically, the US followed by Britain, are the leaders in marine salvage at the time. See Mud, Muscle, and Miracles Marine Salvage in the United States Navy by Capt. C. A. Bartholomew, USN for example.

          Those Adriatic ports would be cleared in a matter of a few weeks even if thoroughly wrecked and in use in a just a week or two after being taken.
          Last edited by T. A. Gardner; 25 Oct 14, 20:10.

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          • Originally posted by hairog View Post
            If you haven't guessed it by now T.A. is ruled by two rules in life.

            1. he is never wrong
            2. His world view trumps all logic, facts and figures on any subject. No amount of information can make him change his acquired views on anything and I mean anything.

            If he thinks he is right, then in his own mind, he is right and nothing you say or do will change that. That's the way it is.
            Ha. Do you know that's how I perceive your pov? I tend to agree with him and consider your lack of knowledge of the importance of logistics to cripple your whole story/ concept.
            Credo quia absurdum.


            Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

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            • Originally posted by hairog View Post
              If you haven't guessed it by now T.A. is ruled by two rules in life.

              1. he is never wrong
              2. His world view trumps all logic, facts and figures on any subject. No amount of information can make him change his acquired views on anything and I mean anything.

              If he thinks he is right, then in his own mind, he is right and nothing you say or do will change that. That's the way it is.
              I tend to find TA views to be more logical and provide more informed facts to support them. Even though I may not agree with his view point all the time.

              You tend to take a few facts and run with them, ignoring the rest of reality.

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              • Please discuss the topic, not the personality of the posters.

                ACG Staff

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