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World War II: all sides go total Kamikaze

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  • Mifletz
    replied
    The Luftwaffe suicide pilots of the "Leonidas Squaron"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonidas_Squadron

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  • Doveton Sturdee
    replied
    Originally posted by CarpeDiem View Post
    HMS FORMIDABLE - Illustrious-class Fleet Aircraft Carrier

    From the service history of HMS Formidable.
    Damage from Kamikaze attacks suffered on May 4 1945 and May 9 1945.
    After May 5th attack power restored and operations continued
    After May 9th attack stayed operational.
    After refit/r&r in June continued operations until almost the end of WW2 including air attacks on Mainland Japan.
    On August 9th 1945:


    So HMS Formidable was not written off due to damage from a Kamikaze attack and served and took much further part in World War Two after being attacked by Kamikazes.
    Quit correct. After the second hit on 9 May she remained operational, before suffering a serious hangar fire on 18th. Even then, she continued to operate aircraft until 22nd, when she left for Manus for temporary repairs, and then undertook further repairs in Sydney.

    She rejoined the BPF (Task Force 37) on 6 July, and remained operational until the whole of the BPF returned to Manus on 12 August.

    After the war she transported former POWs to Sydney, and British troops back to the UK (steaming some 100,000 miles during this period). In July 46 she was placed in reserve, before being placed on the disposal list in 1950.

    She arrived at Inverkeithing on 12 May, 1953, for breaking up.

    Prior to that, she had been considered for modernisation, but this never took place, as her material condition had deteriorated during her time in reserve.

    By no stretch of the imagination could it be claimed that she was 'written off.'

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  • CarpeDiem
    replied
    Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
    P.S HMS Formidable was written off due structural damage to her by a Kamikaze attack, yes she may not have been sunk but took no further part in WW2
    HMS FORMIDABLE - Illustrious-class Fleet Aircraft Carrier

    From the service history of HMS Formidable.
    Damage from Kamikaze attacks suffered on May 4 1945 and May 9 1945.
    After May 5th attack power restored and operations continued
    After May 9th attack stayed operational.
    After refit/r&r in June continued operations until almost the end of WW2 including air attacks on Mainland Japan.
    On August 9th 1945:
    Attacked airfields and shipping in North Honshu and Hokkaido with HMS VICTORIOUS HMS INDEFATIGABLE and HMS IMPLACABLE. Cover was provided by major RN units of TF37.During an attack on Onegawa a CORSAIR piloted by Lieut. Robert Gray, DSC, RCNVR bombed and sank the Japanese frigate AMAKUSA despite extensive cross-fire from other ships. For this feat of bravery which cost him his life was awarded the VC posthumously.
    So HMS Formidable was not written off due to damage from a Kamikaze attack and served and took much further part in World War Two after being attacked by Kamikazes.
    Last edited by CarpeDiem; 04 Jun 14, 22:28.

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  • Roddoss72
    replied
    Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
    They couldn't sink Laffey!

    USS Laffey (DD-724)
    No but they sank about 47 ships/vessels of various types. Including 14 destroyers and 3 Aircraft Carrier Escort.

    But imagine frontal Kamikaze attacks on aircraft.

    P.S HMS Formidable was written off due structural damage to her by a Kamikaze attack, yes she may not have been sunk but took no further part in WW2

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  • OpanaPointer
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    Unfortunately, steel doesn't burn...
    They got the nickname because they looked like this.

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
    The fire boats were given their fair of attention, by the kikusui units.
    Unfortunately, steel doesn't burn...

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  • OpanaPointer
    replied
    The fire boats were given their fair of attention, by the kikusui units.

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
    They couldn't sink Laffey!

    USS Laffey (DD-724)
    But they did mess her up pretty good. Also don't forget the four "Mighty Midget" LCI(G) that were with her...



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  • OpanaPointer
    replied
    They couldn't sink Laffey!

    USS Laffey (DD-724)

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  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Mifletz View Post
    How effective would Japanese use of Kamikazes have been if they had already made dosed use of them in 1941-42 when Allied AA was weak, and how would they have reacted?

    Would even the Japanese mindset have been amenable to Kamikaze tactics at that early non-desperate stage of the war?
    Less than their actual attack aircraft. The Kamikaze record versus ships is that they score about three times the hits but almost never sink the ship they attack. Almost all ships attacked are repaired and returned to service too.
    This means they do more damage but do far less fatal damage.

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  • Mifletz
    replied
    I can yet see an expanded Sonderkommando Elbe
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando_Elbe
    in action, especially if the pilots were personally driven fanatische by D-IX and a personal address from Hitler or Goebbels!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqWlD-FVX5s



    If ramtaktik it had been implemented in Galland's 1944 "Gross Schlaeg", 400 Luftwaffe fighters would have expanded their ammunition and then rammed their aircraft, with 600 US bombers being lost in one day, the US daylight bombing campaign would have been halted for 1-2 months month?
    Last edited by Mifletz; 04 Jun 14, 14:21.

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  • OpanaPointer
    replied
    Originally posted by Michele View Post
    It might have made sense if it had been true. I suggest looking for the actual success rates of kamikaze missions, where by "success" I don't mean sinking a ship, but just merely hitting a ship. It wasn't 100%.
    And the observers just made it worse by assuming that the pilots had found an aircraft carrier, aimed at it, avoided being pulped before they reached it, actually hit it, and caused enough damage to sink it. That's quite a leap from seeing a column of smoke in the distance. The reports back to the kikusui units were highly encouraging and totally bogus.

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  • Michele
    replied
    Originally posted by Mifletz View Post
    The Kamikaze motto was "one plane, one warship!".



    But militarily it makes sense.
    It might have made sense if it had been true. I suggest looking for the actual success rates of kamikaze missions, where by "success" I don't mean sinking a ship, but just merely hitting a ship. It wasn't 100%.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mifletz
    replied
    How effective would Japanese use of Kamikazes have been if they had already made dosed use of them in 1941-42 when Allied AA was weak, and how would they have reacted?

    Would even the Japanese mindset have been amenable to Kamikaze tactics at that early non-desperate stage of the war?
    Last edited by Mifletz; 25 May 14, 09:44.

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  • OpanaPointer
    replied
    You have to admit that the most advanced guidance system for an aircraft of the time was the, ahem, "biological computer." Therefore using this "Organic Master Guidance*" systems would obviously be of an advantage to the side that used them effectively.

    Now, given that the US only had officer pilots ...



    *OMG for short.

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