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  • 1948: No Israel

    The 600,000 Jews in 1948 Israel either fail to muster the necessary resolve, or the Arabs invasion succeeds, or the UN vote to establish a Jewish state does not get the necessary number of votes, or the British refuse to leave. The Jews return to the protected dhimmi status they had in Muslim countries for 1000 years, and quietly financially thrive, supplying agriculture and services to the Arabs and British, but without any political or voting rights.

    Ben Gurion and Begin an do nothing as they bitterly watch the Zionist flame of an independent Jewish state extinguished, as demographics cause an increase in anti-Zionist Ultra Orthodox Jewry. The 1/2 million Ashkenazi Jewish Holocaust survivors who in OTL settled in Israel instead are resettled in Australia, Chile and Canada. The 1 million Sephardi Jews from the Arab countries who in OTL were expelled to Israel 1950-57, instead get to peacefully remain in their Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria etc.

    The British Mandate ends officially in 1960, an official UN recognised State of Palestine is recognized under Jordanian hegemony, which is promptly invaded by other Arab countries.....the Jews still quietistically waiting for the Messianic "Ingathering of the Exiles" foretold in their Bible.

  • #2
    I believe Jan Smuts, one of the most influential non-Jewish Zionists, pitched the idea of part of southern Africa being used for the purpose of a Jewish land, not sure where, or how that would've gone down though.
    ------
    'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

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    • #3
      Or since the USA was so in favour of a Zionist State it gives up Washington DC to become Israel.

      Also here is a fact Australia was looked at as a possible candidate for the establishment of an independent Jewish State, imagine that as a reallity, actually it would have worked out well.

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      • #4
        Hummm... Chile... why?

        They would have gotten along marvelously with the Germans in southern Chile...
        "'Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

        - Steven Weinberg

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        • #5
          In 1947 the UN voted to allow the State of Israel to come into existence. Truman would have voted against, but was under pressure from the Jewish lobby.

          WI the UN had actually voted against the partition plan?

          Would the British have left anyway, or been emboldened to hold on to the Levant?

          The vote in the UN was 33-13, but it required a two to one majority to pass. Had it been less than 25 in favor, or 17 against, it would have failed.

          I think that the British would have retained their mandate somewhat longer in hopes that they could have eventually managed a partition themselves or secured a new UN vote supporting the partition of Palestine.

          This soon after the end of WW2 and the Holocaust, I doubt seriously if the US or western European states would have left Israel completely in the lurch if they unilaterally declared independence without UN recognition.

          Depending on how the inevitable Arab/Israeli war played out, Britain and/or France might well have intervened eventually to preserve an Israel with the initial 1948 partition line - called by Abba Eban "The Auschwitz Lines" - but no more.

          66 years on, it looks like those borders are again in the offing!

          [/quote]

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          • #6
            I would like to know why would we have had the jews dumped on us? ANd why would anyone think that we would just let it happen, we are not the arabs that just allowed that to happen.
            "'Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

            - Steven Weinberg

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            • #7
              Hi mifetz, I thought this was really interesting,

              Back in 1820, a proposal for a Jewish "homeland" was made by Mordecai Manuel Noah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordecai_Manuel_Noah

              The homeland was to be by where I live In Grand Island, New York.

              In 1820, in a precursor to modern Zionism, Mordecai Manuel Noah tried to found a Jewish homeland at Grand Island in the Niagara River, to be called "Ararat," after Mount Ararat, the Biblical resting place of Noah's Ark. He erected a monument at the island which read "Ararat, a City of Refuge for the Jews, founded by Mordecai M. Noah in the Month of Tishri, 5586 (September, 1825) and in the Fiftieth Year of American Independence." Some have speculated whether Noah's utopian ideas may have influenced Joseph Smith, who founded the Latter Day Saint movement in Upstate New York a few years later. In his Discourse on the Restoration of the Jews Noah proclaimed his faith that the Jews would return and rebuild their ancient homeland. Noah called on America to take the lead in this endeavor

              http://books.google.com/books/about/...d=jap4AAAAMAAJ

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              • #8
                My point is if the guys who won Israel back in 1948 dont win , then maybe they try and find a "homeland" in Grand Island? accomplishing the vision of Mordecai Manuel Noah in the process.

                But then again, who in the world knows, Grand Island could be one place of many where Jews go, the ones that decide to not stay in Israel/Palestine or w/e its called after the 48 war in which Israel loses according to the OP.

                I wonder how the Jewish population, a minority at the time, would have been treated by the Muslim population had the Arab Muslim side prevailed in 48'?
                Last edited by Taieb el-Okbi; 30 Apr 14, 14:40. Reason: minor typo

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                • #9
                  The Noah example illustrates to me that, even had the founding of Israel been unsuccessful, someone, somewhere, would have had another go; my personal bet is in league with that of Smuts - somewhere in Africa - as at the time (even into the early 60s) it was a place of ever-shifting borders and subject to more simple negotiation backed by the force of arms which was perhaps untenable elsewhere. Having said that the window for much of Africa was already beginning to close after the National Party victory in SA and the commencement of many of that continent's conflicts. In establishing a Jewish land as a part of an existing state, that state will be cautious of having a state-within-a-state inside its borders, whilst few states will be prepared to hand out territory necessary to establish a new one at their own expense. Particularly one with many wealthy and intelligent individuals drawn from across the world.
                  ------
                  'I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.' - Thomas Jefferson

                  If you have questions about the forum please check the FAQ/Rules

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                    Or since the USA was so in favour of a Zionist State it gives up Washington DC to become Israel.
                    Hmmm... Replace the government officials, congress, senate and president in D.C. with a group of hardworking, intelligent and creative people?
                    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                    Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
                      Hmmm... Replace the government officials, congress, senate and president in D.C. with a group of hardworking, intelligent and creative people?
                      Something like that.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                        Or since the USA was so in favour of a Zionist State it gives up Washington DC to become Israel.

                        Also here is a fact Australia was looked at as a possible candidate for the establishment of an independent Jewish State, imagine that as a reallity, actually it would have worked out well.
                        Really it would: the mass arrival of a cultured, talented people on these shores could only have been a boon.

                        I think though, that Madagascar was a preferred destination.
                        "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                        Samuel Johnson.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JAG View Post
                          I would like to know why would we have had the jews dumped on us? ANd why would anyone think that we would just let it happen, we are not the arabs that just allowed that to happen.
                          "Dumped " ?

                          You don't think that their arrival might have had an up-side ?
                          "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                          Samuel Johnson.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                            Really it would: the mass arrival of a cultured, talented people on these shores could only have been a boon.

                            I think though, that Madagascar was a preferred destination.
                            Think of all those projects we have sat on our collective arses for decades, like cough, cough, the very fast train from Brisbane to Melbourne planned from 1973 and still nothing after spending over 100 million dollars on report after report, and finally after 30 years of screwing around we get a second Sydney International Airport.

                            It would have been a god send had they have come here.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Selous View Post
                              The Noah example illustrates to me that, even had the founding of Israel been unsuccessful, someone, somewhere, would have had another go; my personal bet is in league with that of Smuts - somewhere in Africa - as at the time (even into the early 60s) it was a place of ever-shifting borders and subject to more simple negotiation backed by the force of arms which was perhaps untenable elsewhere. Having said that the window for much of Africa was already beginning to close after the National Party victory in SA and the commencement of many of that continent's conflicts. In establishing a Jewish land as a part of an existing state, that state will be cautious of having a state-within-a-state inside its borders, whilst few states will be prepared to hand out territory necessary to establish a new one at their own expense. Particularly one with many wealthy and intelligent individuals drawn from across the world.
                              Didn't the Nazis had some plan to ship all the Jews to Madagascar at one point.
                              texjoy861 from youtube:

                              "Aaron Sorkin writes like a limousine liberal version of Ayn Rand. None of the characters sound remotely like human beings."

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