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Japan sides with the allies in 1941

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  • Originally posted by Doveton Sturdee View Post
    What? The spelling, the post, or both?
    LOL! You choose.

    Regards
    Scott Fraser
    Ignorance is not the lack of knowledge. It is the refusal to learn.

    A contentedly cantankerous old fart

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    • Originally posted by Draco View Post
      Most German military experts and economists opposed the invasion of the USSR. Only Hitler and his lackeys (Göring, Keitel, etc, supported it).
      If Churchill's experts thought that the USSR would cave in 3 to 6 months, isn't it stupid to waste time and resources becoming a Soviet ally after wasting resources with quick losers like Poland, Norway, France, Yugslavia and Greece? The same goes for L-L to the USSR.

      Any expert who thought that Germany could defeat the huge USSR in 3 to 6 months with a few thousand planes, cannon and tanks, a horse drawn army and ridiculous production didn't deserve to be called an expert.
      Total bollocks.

      The Soviets were planing to invade in 1941, Stalin ordered the invasion, the Soviets mobilized 6 million troops, 25,000 tanks, 20,000 aircraft, 10's of thousands of artillery guns and built hundreds of airfields and were layed out as an offensive force NOT a defensive force.

      Hitler was warned by his General Staff that Stalin was preparing an all out offensive and Hitler got there first, had Hitler listened to those who said not to invade, would by the Soviets would have conquered Eastern Europe and by the end of 1942 have reached the English Channel and the Iberian Peninsular. You would speaking Russian now.

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      • Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
        Total bollocks.

        The Soviets were planing to invade in 1941, Stalin ordered the invasion, the Soviets mobilized 6 million troops, 25,000 tanks, 20,000 aircraft, 10's of thousands of artillery guns and built hundreds of airfields and were layed out as an offensive force NOT a defensive force.

        Hitler was warned by his General Staff that Stalin was preparing an all out offensive and Hitler got there first, had Hitler listened to those who said not to invade, would by the Soviets would have conquered Eastern Europe and by the end of 1942 have reached the English Channel and the Iberian Peninsular. You would speaking Russian now.
        Not at all. There are any number of threads here or on AHF dismissing this assertion, which was first put forth by Goebbels and repeated years later by Vladimir Rezun, alias Victor Suvorov. Rezun was a failed GRU officer who defected during the Evil Empire days and became rich and famous telling Cold Warriors what they wanted to hear. In between he wrote pulp fiction.

        Since then, the documents Rezun says he remembers are all available to historians for examination. There is no documentary evidence to support Rezun's theory: no orders, memoranda, planning documents, requisitions, movement orders, nothing of the sort. On the contrary, there is every evidence indicating that Stalin was intent on maintaining a defensive posture at least until 1943. David Glantz wrote the book Stumbling Colossus specifically to refute Rezun/Suvorov's thesis. Gabriel Gorodetsky wrote another one, Grand Illusion. Between the two of them, Suvorov comes out looking like a bug on a windshield.

        Back in one of those threads are the details of the Soviet plan. They were to form up in three echelons. The first was to attack and contain the Germans if they came over the border. The second was to come down on the enemy force and destroy it. Then the third echelon was to launch a counterattack into enemy territory as far as Katowice (200 - 250 km) to seize the Silesian coalfields and then wait for Hitler to sue for peace. It didn't work out that way, but that was the plan. If you search "Rezun", you will find the discussion.

        Regards
        Scott Fraser
        Ignorance is not the lack of knowledge. It is the refusal to learn.

        A contentedly cantankerous old fart

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
          Total bollocks.

          The Soviets were planing to invade in 1941, Stalin ordered the invasion, the Soviets mobilized 6 million troops, 25,000 tanks, 20,000 aircraft, 10's of thousands of artillery guns and built hundreds of airfields and were layed out as an offensive force NOT a defensive force.

          Hitler was warned by his General Staff that Stalin was preparing an all out offensive and Hitler got there first, had Hitler listened to those who said not to invade, would by the Soviets would have conquered Eastern Europe and by the end of 1942 have reached the English Channel and the Iberian Peninsular. You would speaking Russian now.
          I agree with Fraser.
          There were more Axis troops at the front at the beginning of Barbarossa than Soviet troops, they just had much fewer cannon, tanks and planes than the Soviets and could not make up for the losses with ridiculous production. The Germans lost over 10% of their tanks and planes in the first month (over two months worth of production) and were doomed, as losses increased faster than production.
          Stalin was trying to buy time to replace all the officers he had murdered in 1937-38 and to produce large numbers of superior T-34s, KV-1, modern fighters, cannon, etc, He just made the stupid mistake of having large stocks of fuel, ammo, etc, and large numbers of troops, tanks, planes, cannon, trucks, etc, right at the border and lost them promptly to German arillery and planes.
          Last edited by Draco; 14 Apr 14, 11:37.

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          • Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post

            1, how does Japan and Britian who hated each other with a passion after the way the British treated the Japanese after WW1 by declaring them not racially as pure as the Anglo Saxons.?
            British Upperclass Twit: pip pip old chap! The wogs do begin at Calais, after all. You are in good company, like our old enemies, the French.
            They do call us 'Perfidious Albion' for some reason.


            Now in 1928 Japan did join fourteen other nations in signing the Kellogg-Briand Pact.

            All that was needed was some of the assassinations to go more in favor of the IJN rather than IJA. UK-Japan relations were not bad until 1940. With Mitsumasa Yonai as prime minister, who was pro-British until he got replaced due to pressure from the IJA faction from the War Ministry, yes, I think a deal could have been worked out. The Tripartite Pact was only signed after he resigned.


            There wasn't that much mutual hate till after the War got going.

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