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  • #16
    n/t
    Last edited by The Exorcist; 21 Dec 13, 10:52.
    "Why is the Rum gone?"

    -Captain Jack

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    • #17
      Guys... I'm pretty sure the thread title says Infantry division. Not armored division.
      Michele

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      • #18
        As a mental exercise I would think you need to limit the size of your Infantry Division. If not you end up with an Infantry Division that is closer to the size of a small Corp.

        Most any commander would like more of everything: more men, rifles, machine guns, mortars, artillery and tanks. And just as important more support such as more trucks, supply and engineer units.

        As a side note, U.S. Infantry Divisions had ZERO (0) tanks and tank destroyers assigned to them. There were Separate Tank and Tank Destroyer Battalions that were pooled at Corp and Army level that could be assigned either wholly are piecemeal to the Infantry Divisions. But there were not enough of them to give every U.S. Infantry Division its own tank and tank destroyer battalion permanently. The same goes with the anti-aircraft and chemical mortar battalions.

        As a mental exercise I will limit my Infantry Division to the size and over all shape of a U.S. Infantry Division in 1944 PLUS:

        A tank destroyer battalion
        A tank battalion
        A Chemical Mortar Battalion
        An Anti-Aircraft Battalion (Automatic Weapons with quad .50 machine guns and 40 mm auto cannons)

        The above 4 battalions would give would give my theoretical Infantry Division another 2866 officers and men to move around.

        This is alot of manpower to work with. I will concentrate on the combat elements. Logistics is of course a key element, but it just isn't as much fun to talk about as artillery, tanks, machine guns, mortars and other things that go bang or boom!

        Platoon:
        Platoon Hq: Lieutenant, Platoon Sergeant, two "runners" one acting as radio man, One corporal Jeep driver. One Jeep with trailer. All would have M1 Carbines.

        Jeep and driver would be used for shuttling food supplies and equipment. In rough terrain or terrain overly vulnerable to enemy fire may be left some distance behind the platoon. The Jeep driver would need to be an very intellegent enlisted man who could operate on his own.

        4 squads: Three rifle squads, one weapons squad:

        Rifle squad: (9 men total)
        Led by a staff sergeant with an M-1 rifle.
        Two 4 man fire teams one led by a sergeant one by a corporal.
        Each fire team would have 1 man with a B.A.R. the other three with M-1 rifles. One Man with each fire team would have grenade launcher for his rifle. All members of the fire team would carry extra magazines for the B.A.R.

        Weapons Squad: (10 Men total)
        Led by a staff sergeant with an M-1 Carbine.
        Machine gun team:
        5 men led by a Sergeant with one M1919A6 Browning .30 machine gun. All with M-1 Carbine except gunner who carries a .45 automatic.
        Bazooka team. Two men, Bazooka gunner with M-1 carbine, ammo bearer with M-1 rifle.
        Sniper team. One with 1903 .30 Springfield rifle with scope. One with M-1 carbine.

        * This Platoon has two more men than a U.S. Army platoon of 1944. *

        Company:

        Admin and command same as a standard U.S. company, commanded by a captain. Headquarters would have a bazooka for local defense.

        Three rifle platoons as above + one weapons platoon.

        Weapons platoon:
        Headquarters. Lieutenant, Platoon Sergeant, four drivers two "runners". One acts as radio man. 4 Jeeps with trailers. Would have a bazooka for local defense.

        Mortar section: Led by a staff sergeant with a private as runner
        3 mortar teams 5 men led by a sergeant. One 60mm mortar. All men carry M-1carbines as personnal weapons. (17 ment total)

        Machine gun section. Three squads: (33 men total)
        Each squad led by a staff sergeant.
        Each squad has two maching gun teams
        Each team led by a sergeant has 5 men with one M1919A4 machine gun.
        All carry M-1 carbines except the machine gunners who carry .45 automatic pistols.

        * This weapons platoon has 23 more men than a 1944 U.S. Army weapons platoon. *

        * Company has 29 more men than a 1944 U.S. Army Company*

        *Work in Progress, more to come*
        Last edited by 17thfabn; 21 Dec 13, 14:39.
        "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
        Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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        • #19
          Going to battalion:

          This has 3 line infantry companies and adds a weapons company along with having a HQ and HQ coy.

          The weapons company has:
          HQ section with 2 officers and 10 enlisted. They also serve as the fire direction center for the mortar platoon. With appropriate comm and plotting equipment.

          There are two weapons platoons:

          Antitank with 3 7.5cm Pak 40 guns, 3 x 1 1/2 ton 6x6 trucks, 3 jeeps (for scouting). 3x MG 34 are provided 1 per crew. Gun crews are 8 men.
          A mine section with 1 2.5 ton 6x6 and 1 3/4 ton 4 x 4 truck is included along with the section having an MG 34. The section has 12 men.

          A mortar platoon with 6 x 81 mm mortars (any Brandt design copy).
          6 1 1/2 ton trucks (6x6), 1 jeep, and 3 MG 34 are included. The mortars each have a 9 man crew and there is a 5 man HQ section with commo equipment

          The HQ Company has:

          A supply and maintenance section with 2.5 ton trucks including a kitchen, workshop vehicle, and supply vehicles. 2 jeeps.

          Admin section with 2.5 ton truck and 2 jeeps

          Machinegun platoon with 8 x M1918A3 watercooled machineguns with 4 man crew and 8 jeeps.

          Recon section: 3 jeeps w/ MG 34 and 1 M29C Weasel with MG 34.

          Engineer section: 2 2.5 ton dump trucks 1 M29C weasel, 1 Stz 5ch tractor. 1 officer 15 men. Have hand and power tools.

          The Regiment has 3 battalions and adds:

          HQ and HQ Co with another recon section like the battalion has and supply and admin units.

          Antitank company: 12 Jgpz V Jadgpanther + 1 Bergepanther. 2 Jeeps, 4 2.5 ton trucks for admin, maintenance, and supply.

          Cannon Company: 6 x M3A1 105mm howitzers. 6 x Stz 5ch tractors 6 2.5 ton trucks 2 jeeps.
          Gun crew is 10 men + HQ section of 10.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
            As a mental exercise I would think you need to limit the size of your Infantry Division. If not you end up with an Infantry Division that is closer to the size of a small Corp.

            My 22,000 man infantry division is equivalent to 1.5 western divisions in ww2 and 2.5 times greater than most Soviet rifle divisions.

            My 18,000 man armored division is a bit smaller than the SS Panzer division but equivalent to 1.5 US armored divisions.

            Given the turnover rate of formations in WW2, I would prefer larger divisions with more staying power, more reserves, and more time to rotate the exhausted.

            I should probably include a third type of division- the 'defense' division as my Infantry division is clearly quite strong and geared for offensives:

            25,000 men

            2 tank battalion (Sherman 17 pounder)

            1 mechanized Infantry battalion (1. Recon 2. line 3. line 4. Heavy company)

            9 motorized infantry battalions (1. Assault Engineer company 2. line 3. line 4. Heavy company with HMG, mortars, and antitank guns)

            1 Heavy engineer battalion

            1 Signals battalion

            1 mechanized artillery battalion

            5 towed Artillery battalions (medium and heavy)

            1 anti-aircraft battalion
            Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
            Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
            Barbarossa Derailed I & II
            Battle of Kalinin October 1941

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Michele View Post
              Guys... I'm pretty sure the thread title says Infantry division. Not armored division.
              I know what you mean... but Nick said:

              Originally posted by Nick the Noodle View Post
              Imagine you are in charge of procuring kit for a neutral country during WW2 and you need to kit out several infantry divisions.
              What would you wish to choose and how would your division OOB look like?
              Kit limited to what was actually produced by 6.6.44 and used in combat by 7.7.44.
              And listed his own division with Tank and AT-Battalion Support.
              So my division was gettin the heavy stuff as well. Just in case my country doesn't stay neutral...
              One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Hanov View Post
                I know what you mean... but Nick said:



                And listed his own division with Tank and AT-Battalion Support.
                So my division was gettin the heavy stuff as well. Just in case my country doesn't stay neutral...

                The US often added independent tank battalions to their infantry divisions. It was found that those more or less permanently assigned to a division were more effective.
                In British service the Guards 6th Tank Brigade (3 Battalions of tanks) said that while they operated alongside some of the best infantry (ie the British 6th Airbourne and US 17th Airborne divisions), they were most successful with a standard line division. This was because they had trained together before D-Day.
                Therefore, taking cue from both examples, I've added a Churchill tank battalion to my infantry division.

                Keen eyed individuals will note that I have used a British infantry divisions TOE as my basis, just as I used a US formation for my armoured divisions TOE in a previous thread. This is where I believe the combat strengths of each nation lay, with the British being better defensively, or in set piece battles, and the US better in mobile warfare and initiative.

                I have used two major differences between my formation and the Britsh standard one. The first is that I have included a great deal more heavy mortars at brigade level. Mortars were a big killer in WW2, much more so than any sidearm. The second is that I have included a lot more US kit. I do believe that the M1 Garand was the best basic infantry arm of WW2. I also replaced all my towed 17pdrs with M10 Achilles, mainly because towed AT guns were found to be very ineffective comparred with SP types.

                One further amendment to my division; I would also include enough Kangaroo's to be able to transport one battalion of infantry.
                How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Hanov View Post
                  I know what you mean... but Nick said:



                  And listed his own division with Tank and AT-Battalion Support.
                  So my division was gettin the heavy stuff as well. Just in case my country doesn't stay neutral...
                  OK, I'll go the German way then. Support by armored vehicles, yes, but tank destroyers, not tanks proper. In the AT battalion, replacing towed AT guns.

                  I frankly don't see any reason why not to use the German stuff and organisation as it was in 1944 - save with the manpower they had earlier on. The tech is as good as it gets, you just need 9 infantry battalions for a true division.

                  I'll also go for the British way of replacing all horse-drawn limbers, carts and wagons with motorized transport - that's for the command elements, artillery, signal, supply etc. elements, the infantry will have to walk if this is still an infantry division.

                  I'm not listing supply, administrative, medical units

                  Divisional HQ
                  HQ, HQ company, MP platoon, signals, all motorized

                  3 Infantry Regiments, each:

                  Regimental HQ
                  HQ, signals, engineer platoon (all motorized), motorcycle recon platoon

                  Regimental IG company
                  HQ, 6 7.5mm IG, 2 15cm IG, ammo unit, all motorized

                  Regimental AT company
                  HQ (motorized), 12 Hetzer, ammo unit (motorized)

                  3 Infantry Battalions, each:

                  Battalion HQ
                  HQ, HQ platoon, all motorized

                  3 Infantry Companies, each:
                  3 platoons

                  1 Heavy Company
                  3 MG platoons (12 MG42s), 1 mortar platoon (6 8cm mortars), motorized ammo unit

                  1 Artillery Regiment

                  Regimental HQ
                  HQ, signals, FOs, all motorized

                  3 Light Artillery Battalions, each:
                  HQ, signals, ammo column, 12 10.5cm FH, all motorized

                  1 Heavy Artillery Battalion
                  HQ, signals, ammo column, 12 15cm FH, all motorized

                  1 Recon Battalion
                  HQ, signals, all motorized

                  1 Cavalry Squadron
                  3 troops

                  1 Motorcycle Squadron
                  3 troops

                  1 Heavy Squadron
                  6 SdKfz-221, 2 7.5 IG (motorized), 2 Hetzer

                  1 Anti-Tank Battalion

                  Battalion HQ
                  HQ, signals, all motorized

                  3 AT Companies, each:
                  12 Hetzer

                  1 Engineer Battalion

                  Battalion HQ
                  HQ, signals, chemical platoon, all motorized

                  3 Engineer Companies, each:
                  3 platoons including 1 flamethrower section, all motorized

                  1 Engineering Supply Column

                  1 Bridging Column

                  EDIT: it seems I forgot an AA Battalion, with:

                  Battalion HQ
                  HQ, signals, ammo column, all motorized

                  2 Companies, each:
                  8 SP 2cm AAG (on unarmored halftracks)
                  4 SP 2cmx4 AAG (ditto)

                  1 Heavy Company
                  4 8.8cm AAG (towed by unarmored halftracks)
                  Last edited by Michele; 23 Dec 13, 03:53.
                  Michele

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                  • #24
                    Ok, now some more detail about the platoon.

                    The squad is 12 men, with:
                    1 MG 42,
                    2 FG 42,
                    7 G 43,
                    2 ZB G33/40,
                    1 Panzerfaust 60.

                    A very good thing about this is that all the guns fire the same round, the 7.92mm Mauser.
                    The MG 42 needs no introduction.
                    The FG 42 manages to pack a better performance than the StG 44, without needing a different round. Plenty of firepower without sacrificing range.
                    The G 43s are the German way to replace the Garands.
                    The ZB G33/40s are shorter and handier than a Kar 98. They are for the assistant machine gunners, one of which will also carry the Panzerfaust. Yes, the latter is not weight-efficient, but it's a last-ditch defense.

                    I want three such squads to the platoon, plus a HQ squad. The latter contains 3 2-man Raketenpanzerbüchse 43 teams, 1 2-man GrW 36 5cm mortar team, 1 CO, 1 NCO, 2 runners and 1 sniper. The guns are all MP40s so that additional short-range fire volume can be added to the squads if needed; with the exception of one G 43 with scope for the sniper.
                    Michele

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                    • #25
                      Large platoons:

                      -rifle platoon (1, 2, 3). 1 rifle grenade, 1 scope, 2 Brens, 8 garands, 2 PPSH

                      (4, 5) M-18 Recoiless rifles X 3, MG42 HMG x3, reserve Panzershreck X 3, signals

                      -heavy platoon: 75mm recoiless rifles x 6, 60mm US mortar x3, 3 x 50 cal. MG.

                      The idea behind my companies are to:

                      1. avoid costly close combat.

                      2. Beat the enemy troops with light and accurate direct (Brens, 50 cal. and recoiless rifles) and indirect firepower (60mms, rifle grenades) while having a lot of suppression capability (MG42 HMGs).

                      Garands optimized aimed rifle fire.

                      Anti-tank and anti- light vehicle is provided by shreks and 50 cal.

                      The point of main effort should see the heavy platoon concentrated with the rifle platoon. The (6) recoiless rifle squads would move forward and support the lead platoon by concentrate the fire of their tubes at strongpoints. The mortars and the 50 cals. are right behind and in support.

                      M-18 57mm man-portable



                      ---------------------

                      Heavy Weapons Company:8 x 75mm pak40 antitank guns, 8 x 120mm mortars, 6 x 105mm recoiless rifle, 4 x 37mm cal. armored halftracks.

                      Similar concept, except higher order. Heavy mortars and recoiless rifles support the attacking company.

                      The armored 37mm move around to hot spots and turn infantry into hamburger or shoot up light vehicles/armor. Or provide anti-air.

                      The pak40s form two 'pak fronts' to defend the battalion.
                      Last edited by Cult Icon; 24 Dec 13, 02:02.
                      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        As a mental exercise I will limit my Infantry Division to the size and over all shape of a U.S. Infantry Division in 1944 PLUS:

                        A tank destroyer battalion
                        A tank battalion
                        A Chemical Mortar Battalion
                        An Anti-Aircraft Battalion (Automatic Weapons with quad .50 machine guns and 40 mm auto cannons)
                        These independent battalions were often attached to a typical U.S. Infantry Division, so I will incorporate them into my Division.

                        The above 4 battalions would give would give my theoretical Infantry Division another 2866 officers and men to move around.

                        As much as possible I'm going to use U.S. equipment. Not that U.S. equipment is the best across the board it just keeps it simpler for my purposes.

                        This is alot of manpower to work with. I will concentrate on the combat elements. Logistics is of course a key element, but it just isn't as much fun to talk about as artillery, tanks, machine guns, mortars and other things that go bang or boom!

                        Platoon:
                        Platoon Hq: Lieutenant, Platoon Sergeant, two "runners" one acting as radio man, One corporal Jeep driver. One Jeep with trailer. All would have M1 Carbines.

                        Jeep and driver would be used for shuttling food supplies and equipment. In rough terrain or terrain overly vulnerable to enemy fire may be left some distance behind the platoon. The Jeep driver would need to be an very intellegent enlisted man who could operate on his own.

                        4 squads: Three rifle squads, one weapons squad:

                        Rifle squad: (9 men total)
                        Led by a staff sergeant with an M-1 rifle.
                        Two 4 man fire teams one led by a sergeant one by a corporal.
                        Each fire team would have 1 man with a B.A.R. the other three with M-1 rifles. One Man with each fire team would have grenade launcher for his rifle. All members of the fire team would carry extra magazines for the B.A.R.

                        Weapons Squad: (10 Men total)
                        Led by a staff sergeant with an M-1 Carbine.
                        Machine gun team:
                        5 men led by a Sergeant with one M1919A6 Browning .30 machine gun. All with M-1 Carbine except gunner who carries a .45 automatic.
                        Bazooka team. Two men, Bazooka gunner with M-1 carbine, ammo bearer with M-1 rifle.
                        Sniper team. One with 1903 .30 Springfield rifle with scope. One with M-1 carbine.

                        * This Platoon has two more men than a U.S. Army platoon of 1944. *

                        This platoon has three more B.A.R.s, an added machine gun and an added bazooka than a U.S. infantry platoon would have, with only two more men. A key factor allowing me to do this would be the addition of the jeep and trailer. All weapons are borne by the men. But the jeep allows quick replacement of ammo.

                        I used the B.A.R. as my squad automatic weapon in the fire teams. The B.A.R. is a "relatively' handy weapon. The fire teams of a squad can take turns moving and covering each other.

                        I used the M1919A6 because at platoon level it is quicker to get into action than the M1919A4.

                        Company:

                        Admin and command same as a standard U.S. company, commanded by a captain. Headquarters would have a bazooka for local defense.

                        Three rifle platoons as above + one weapons platoon.

                        Weapons platoon:
                        Headquarters. Lieutenant, Platoon Sergeant, four drivers two "runners". One acts as radio man. 4 Jeeps with trailers. Would have a bazooka for local defense.

                        Mortar section: Led by a staff sergeant with a private as runner
                        3 mortar teams 5 men led by a sergeant. One 60mm mortar. All men carry M-1carbines as personnal weapons. (17 ment total)

                        Machine gun section. Three squads: (33 men total)
                        Each squad led by a staff sergeant.
                        Each squad has two maching gun teams
                        Each team led by a sergeant has 5 men with one M1919A4 machine gun.
                        All carry M-1 carbines except the machine gunners who carry .45 automatic pistols.

                        * This weapons platoon has 23 more men than a 1944 U.S. Army weapons platoon. *

                        * Company has 29 more men than a 1944 U.S. Army Company*

                        This company has 7 more machine guns and 9 more B.A.R.s than a standard U.S. infantry company.

                        Battalion, three of the above rifle companies plus Headquarters company and heavy weapons company.

                        The anti-tank platoon in the Hq Company is eliminated, anti-tank defense will be provided by having bazookas with just about every vehicle that can carry one. And will also be dealt with latter in the TOE.

                        Heavy weapons company will have:
                        A total of eight 81mm mortars in two mortar platoons:
                        Each mortar platoon has four 81mm mortars with a total of 40 officers and men.
                        Machine gun platoon will have six .30 cal M1919A4 machine guns manned by 39 officers and men.

                        This Heavy weapons company would have two more 81 mm mortars than U.S. Infantry heavy weapons company. It would trade 2 platoons with 4 M-1917 .30cal water cooled heavy machine guns each for one platoon with six M-1919A4 Machine guns.

                        I have upped the number of 81mm mortars and split them into two platoons. The 81mm mortar is one of the biggest killers in the infantry battalion. Splitting them into two platoons would allow the battalion commander to have one platoon support each side of a two pronged attack. (The old two up one back). The light machine gun platoon can be moved around to guard critical parts of the battalion or to lend extra fire power to an attack.

                        *Work in Progress, more to come*
                        Last edited by 17thfabn; 23 Dec 13, 23:04.
                        "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                        Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Ah something along my lines, one of the things I constantly do is make up little OOB/ToE charts.
                          Though I have a odd habit of having each unit above platoon be divisible by 5, I also tend to run a 4/3/4 pattern all the way up to well army group level (4 squads to a Platoon, 3 Platoons to a Company, 4 Companys to a Battalion, 3 Battalions to a Regiment and 4 Regiments to a Division, note this primary applies to the units main type I.e. that's 4 infantry regiments to a division...) Though artillery and engineer units do not necessarily follow this.

                          Though one thing to note is what exactly is a Division? It has changed in it's organization and lay out over the years, never mind the various flavors each country provided... Back in 1917 before the US joined WW1 a US division had 9 infantry regiments!, a few months later this was cut to 4, but the man power was roughly the same though... at around 28,000...

                          With their closest equivalent weapons, and a bit of a mash up
                          Infantry Squad 11 men, Brake down
                          Squad leader: Danuvia 43M SMG (more of a Automatic carbine really)
                          Ast. Squad leader: Danuvia 43M SMG
                          MG gunner: MG43 (LMG mode)
                          Ast. MG gunner: G43 Rifle
                          Ammo bearer: G43 Rifle
                          5x Rifle men: G43 Rifle
                          1x Grenadier: G43 Rifle with Rifle grenade launcher (as I said equlvent weapon, as I believe the G43 did not have the option for this, out side of prototypes, likewise a bayonet mount...)

                          Platoon
                          4x Squads
                          Platoon Commander: Danuvia 43M SMG
                          Platoon Sergeant: G43 Rifle
                          Messenger: G43 Rifle
                          Radio operator: G43 Rifle, (Radio equlvent to the SCR-536 "Handie talkie")
                          Anti Armor operator: Anti Tank Rocket launcher (Panzerschreck analog)
                          Ast. Anti Armor operator: G43 Rifle

                          Company
                          Company HQ: 8 (Co, XO, Co Sgt, Co Guide, 2x Radio, 2x "basics")
                          Mess, Medical and Supply Squad: 12 (includes Co Supply Sgt & Medical Cpl)

                          MG Section 16 men, 3x Tripod MG 34s
                          Mortar Section 14 men, 2x 75mm Mortars

                          Total Company 200 officers and men
                          12x LMGs
                          3x err MMGs
                          2x Medium Mortars
                          3x Anti Tank Rocket launchers (Panzerschreck analog)
                          2x 1 ton trucks
                          9x infantry carts (.2 ton, one per ptln, and three per weapon Section), these are hand carts.
                          6x radios (one per platoon, one for the Co HQ and one each for the two weapons Sections, though on less well equipped/understrength units the MG and 3rd platoons radios would be dropped)

                          Edit: The Companys Hvy Weapons Crews do use a M1 carbine analog

                          Battalion
                          HQ: 25 officers and men (2x cars and a Handie talkie)
                          HHQ Co: 175 officers and men
                          -Co HQ 5 (and a Handie talkie)
                          -Btln Coms ptln: 32
                          --HQ & cmd post section: 11 (ldr is Btln coms officer)
                          --Radio section: 11 (5x teams, Radio equlvent to the SCR-300 "Walkie-talkie")
                          --Field Phone section: 10 (3x teams)

                          -Btln Medical Ptln: 27
                          --Staff & cmd post 8 (and a Handie talkie)
                          --Dental 3
                          --Ambulance teams 16, 4x ambulances (2x Handie talkie)

                          -Btln Supply and Maintenance Ptln: 28, 7x1 ton truck and 1x2 ton truck

                          -Various other elements: 15 (Mess, Mail, Clerks, ect), includes a "car" for the mess section

                          -Anti Tank Ptln: 36 men
                          --HQ: 4 men and a 2 ton truck for ammo and a "Handie talkie"
                          --4x Squads: 8 men each, 1x 75mm Pak 40 & 1x MG34 (Leader, 5 gun crew, 2 MG gunners), 1x 2t truck

                          -Hvy Mortar Ptln: 32 men
                          --HQ & FC 8 men, and a 2 ton truck. 2x "Handie talkies"
                          --4x Hvy Mortar Squads: 6 men each, 1x 125mm Mortar & a 1 ton truck

                          LMGs: 7
                          AT Rockets: 4
                          125mm Mortar:4
                          75mm AT Guns:4
                          Infantry Cart:11
                          1t lt Truck:11
                          2t Trucks:7
                          Cars:7 (like the Jeep or Kubelwagen)
                          Radios: 13 (8x hand helds, 5x man packs)

                          4x Rifle Companys
                          Over all battalion man power is 1,000

                          Regiment
                          HQ: 45 men
                          HQ Co: 230 (includes a 60 man sniper platoon, 4 snipers per infantry co, with 12 for other uses)
                          Heavy Co: 200 men
                          -HQ 8 men
                          -Mess, Medical and Supply Squad: 16 men
                          -Scout Platoon: 40, 4x 8 man squads + HQ (uses an analog to the Schwimmwagen), 2x MG 34s per squad, 10 cars
                          -Engineer/Pioneer Platoon: 50 men (HQ, 4 men, 3x13 man Squads and a 7 man flamethrower squad, 2 flamethrowers), each squad has 2x MG34s
                          -AA Platoon: 50 men, 6x 20mm AA guns (some what similar to the 20mm Flak 38)
                          -ATG Platoon 36 men, identical to the one at battalion level

                          3x Infantry Battalions
                          Infantry gun Co: 150 men, 6x 75mm IGs* and 2x 105mm IGs (smiler to the us 105mm M3)
                          * equlvent either the IG 37 or 42 or the PAK 50 (which is a Pak 38 re-bored to a 75mm caliber and used the ammo of the75mm KwK 36)

                          Over all regimental man power 3,625 men

                          Infantry Division
                          HQ -150
                          Escort Company -145 An Infantry Platoon, MG Sec, Mortar Sec, ATG Sec (2 gun) & a lt. AA Sec for HQ defense
                          HQ Battalion -650 (contains various smaller units, such as Maintenance, Police, Mess)
                          Medical Battalion -500, a small HQ & HQ Co, an Ambulance co, a Medical treatment Co and a support co (Dentistry, Gas support and a reserve units)
                          Communications Battalion -400, contains small HQ & HQ co, a radio co, phone co (both ~150 men) and a small support co
                          Supply Battalion -460, 5x 70 man 100 ton company's, motorized of coarse, and a small HQ & support co
                          4x Infantry Regiments (14,500)
                          Artillery Regiment -2790
                          -HQ: 45
                          -HQ battery: 225, also contains a Weather unit as well as sound and flash ranging teams
                          -4x Lt Battalions (105mm) 495 men each and 12x 105mm howitzers similar to the German 10.5cm LeFH 43 prototypes (Skoda), each battalion has 3 batteries of four guns and 95 men, towed by a light prime mover (some what analogous to the RSO)
                          -Hvy Battalion (152mm) largely similar in lay out to it's lighter counter parts the Hvy Battalion contains 540 men and 12x 152mm Howitzers in three batteries, the guns are similar to the 15cm SFH 43 Prototypes, Prime mover is similar to the US M5 HST.
                          * Note my chart originally has a 145 man light AA battery as part of the regiment but I've scene deleted that unit, the battalions gained elements of the former company, as each now have a 2 gun and 20 man light AA section

                          Anti Tank Battalion -725
                          -Contains 3 company's (185 men each) of 12x 75mm AT Guns (and the attending 12x MG34s) in three platoons along with a platoon with 12 Anti Tank Rocket launchers. Each Company also contains a Recon Squad, as per the Recon Troop

                          Engineer Battalion -910
                          -HQ: 25
                          -HQ Co: 145
                          -3x Engineer Cos: 200, In general not to dissimilar to the infantry organization, but the platoons are more along the lines of the regimental engineer platoon, but only one MG 34 and more tasked for general engineering rather than assaults.

                          -Bridging & equipment co: 140, Contains a Boat platoon (maintains and operates the divisions allocated assault boats), a bridging platoon (transports the divisions bridge elements, one or more of the engineering cos is often tasked to help build the bridge(s)), and the divisional construction vehicle park (Bulldozers (6x), dump trucks (9x) and the like)

                          Hvy MG Btln -950, contains 48 Hvy Machine guns (rough KPV-14.5 HMG analog) and 12x 37mm autocannons (think QF1 pounder "Pom Pom") in four companys, battalion also has 6x 75mm mortars and 4x75mm ATGs.

                          Recon troop-160, includes 19x Armored cars, each of the three platoon have 4 armored cars and 6 jeeps and 37 men, the Hvy weapons platoon has 3 each of 75mm howitzer and mortar armed cars, each Squad contains an Armored Car and two Jeeps (11 men total), currently the Armored Car is similar to the PSW 222.

                          Medium Anti Aircraft battery -160, 12x 37mm AA guns similar to the 3.7cm Flak 43, 3 platoons

                          Over all Man power roughly 22,500 officers and men

                          Various Weapons totals
                          75mm Mortars ~113
                          125mm Mortars 48
                          MMGs ~153
                          HMGs 48 (not including ones mounted on vehicles)
                          75mm IGs 27
                          105mm IGs 8
                          105mm Howitzers 48
                          152mm Howitzers 12
                          20mm AA Guns 36
                          37mm AA Guns 12
                          37mm Autocannons 12
                          75mm AT Guns 70
                          Armored Cars ~22
                          =================================
                          The Armored Division I have never been very happy with, but it's current configuration is as such
                          4x Regiments each containing a Tank Battalion, Armored Infantry battalion and a Armored Artillery battalion along with Engineer, Anti tank, Anti Aircraft and Recon company's.
                          Division level units are a Hvy AA Battalion, Hvy Artillery Battalion and Engineer Battalion

                          Tank Battalion 800 troops, 72 medium tanks, 6 light tanks
                          HQ 40
                          HQ Co 230
                          Supply & Maint Co 130
                          4x Tank Companys, each of 17 tanks, and 100 men
                          The Tank is similar to the Panzer IV project 1466 (that's the original proposal for the Ausf H with sloped armor and a simplified turret), but using running gear more inline with the Panzer III, a cupola and a base weight of 30 tons
                          The HQ Company is very similar to the type 44 Panzer Battalion in terms of stuff, Engineer platoon, quad 20mm AA Platoon (Wirbelwind), Light Tank platoon (Lynx, I wonder if I could Stuff a Mk 103 instead of the 20mm used?), Infantry Recon Platoon, and the usual medical and coms elements over all strength is 190 personnel

                          The Armored Infantry Battalion is a farly large beast due to the 36 infantry squads (unlike "foot" infantry armored platoons only use 3 squads)
                          Again it's 4 infantry companys, and a HQ & HQ Company, Company Brake down is as such
                          -HQ 8 men
                          -Mess, Med & Supply Section 12 men
                          -3x Platoons 48 men
                          --HQ 9, 3 veh crew, 6 dismounts, 1x 20mm Autocannon, and a AT Rocket launcher
                          --3x Squads 13 men, 2 veh crew, 11 dismounts, 3x MGs (each squad has 2 MGs plus the APCs gun)

                          Heavy weapons Platoon: 56 men
                          HQ: 5 men, 1 APC
                          2x MG Sections: 12 men each, 1 APC, 2 veh crew, 10 dismounts, 2 MMGs each
                          Mortar Section: 9 men 2 vehicles
                          Assault Gun Section: 9 men 2 vehicles
                          AA Gun Section: 9 men, 2 vehicles

                          Company Weapons
                          MGs: 32
                          MMGs: 4
                          20mm Autocannons: 4
                          twin 20mm AA Guns: 2
                          75mm howitzers: 2
                          75mm Mortars: 2
                          AT Rocket launchers: ~5
                          Vehicles: 22 APCs, 2x1t Trucks, 2x Cars

                          Battalion HQ Company is as such, also 220 men strong
                          Btln HQ: 30
                          Co HQ: 6
                          Coms Ptln: 32 (5x Radio teams, 2 phone teams, all armored)
                          Medical Ptln: 28 (4x armored ambulances)
                          Supply & Maintenance ptln: 41, 9x2t Trucks, 1x recovery vehicle
                          Various units: 15
                          Hvy Mortar ptln: 32, 4x mortars, 2x lmgs (APC towed)
                          ATG ptln: 36, 4x 75mm ATG, 9x lmgs (APC towed)

                          The Armored Artillery Battalion is roughly 600 strong with 12x 105m Howitzers, and 6x 152mm howitzers, in 3 batteries and a HQ & HQ battery

                          One thing to note is the APC I worked out with this org, is loosely based off the 251 but is slightly larger and full tracked (similar in looks to GHQs 351 model).
                          Last edited by Nebfer; 24 Dec 13, 02:45.

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                          • #28
                            My Soviet Motorized Infantry Division

                            To me its sacrilegious to mix up every country's kits as if you could just procure anything and everything from across the world. I chose the Soviet Union because when you do all your shopping at one place you receive a greater discount and the best support for the longest period of time. There's a reason each country developed different weapon systems. It's what they decided what they thought was best for them. You start mixing and you get a nightmare of incompatibility, lack of spares, and the cost of conversion. The Soviet Union was the model of producing material cheaply and quick and making it as simple to maintain as possible. It may not have been the best, but it was durable and fixable/easily replaceable.

                            Soviet Motorized Infantry Division
                            1 Tank Regiment
                            3 Motorized Infantry Regiments
                            1 Artillery Regiment
                            1 Air Defense Regiment
                            1 Anti-tank Battalion
                            1 Engineer Battalion
                            1 Intelligence Battalion
                            1 Signals Battalion
                            1 Chemical Battalion
                            1 Maintenance Battalion
                            1 Medical Battalion

                            Division vehicles (as many as needed and distributed as mission dictates)
                            BA-64
                            GAZ-67
                            GAZ–MM
                            ZIS-5
                            ZIS-6

                            Tank Regiment
                            Regiment HQ - 1 T-34-85
                            1 Heavy Tank Battalion - 31 IS-2
                            2 Medium Tank Battalion - 31 T-34-85
                            1 Flamethrower Battalion - 40 OT-34-85
                            Reconnaissance Company - 13 BA-64DShK armoured car
                            Supply Company
                            Maintenance Company

                            Motorized Infantry Regiment - 1665 men x 3 = 4995 total
                            3 Battalions of 555 men
                            5 Companies of 111 men
                            4 Platoons of 28 men
                            4 Squads of 7 men

                            Battalion weapons (555 men)
                            8- 45 mm M-42 AT gun
                            9- 82 mm mortars
                            20- SG-43 HMG
                            80- DPM LMG
                            80- Mosin–Nagant M91/30 PU Sniper
                            80- TT-30 pistol
                            240- PPSh-41 SMG
                            400- Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine

                            Company weapons (5x111 men)
                            8- 45 mm M-42 AT gun
                            10- 82 mm mortars
                            4- SG-43 HMG
                            16- DPM LMG
                            16- Mosin–Nagant M91/30 PU Sniper
                            16- TT-30 pistol
                            48- PPSh-41 SMG
                            48- Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine

                            Platoon weapons (4x28 men)
                            1- 45 mm M-42 AT gun
                            2- 82 mm mortars
                            1- SG-43 HMG
                            4- DPM LMG
                            4- Mosin–Nagant M91/30 PU Sniper
                            4- TT-30 pistol
                            12- PPSh-41 SMG
                            12- Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine

                            Squad weapons (4x7 men)
                            1- DPM LMG (+1 TT-30 sidearm)
                            1- Mosin–Nagant M91/30 PU Sniper
                            3- PPSh-41 SMG
                            3- Mosin-Nagant M44 Carbine

                            Artillery Regiment
                            2 Light Field Howitzer Batteries - 12x 122 mm howitzer M1938 (M-30)
                            2 Heavy Field Howitzer Batteries - 12x 152 mm howitzer M1943 (D-1)

                            Air Defense Regiment
                            Motorized Air Defense Battalion
                            Light Motorized Air Defense Battery - 8x ZSU-37 37 mm AA gun tracked
                            Medium Motorized Air Defense Battery - 8x ZiS-42/43 57 mm AA gun half-track
                            Heavy Motorized Air Defense Battery - 8x YaG-10 76mm AA gun truck

                            Towed Air Defense Battalion
                            Light Battery - 6x 25 mm automatic air defense gun M1940 (72-K)
                            Light Battery - 6x 37 mm automatic air defense gun M1939 (61-K)
                            Heavy Battery - 6x 76 mm air defense gun M1938
                            Heavy Battery - 6x 85 mm air defense gun M1939 (52-K)

                            Anti-tank Battalion
                            Medium Battery - 16x SU-100 SPG
                            Heavy Battery - 16x ISU-122 SPG
                            The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!

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                            • #29
                              Hmmn, just been looking over this thread for the first time and one thing that struck me was the LMG - BAR or Bren question. I have fired many rounds from mainly .303 Brens, but never a round from a BAR, but note that in the prone position a magazine or barrel change on the Bren would likely be much quicker and easier than on the BAR.

                              The Bren shoots almost as accurately as a Lee-Enfield Mk.3 or 4, out to around 800yds in experienced hands.

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