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Assuming that the Allies get to rearm how strong are they in 41/42

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  • Assuming that the Allies get to rearm how strong are they in 41/42

    I hear all of this talk that the British and French had been given until 41 and 42 to rearm without Hitler ruining things. How strong would they be. What would the make up of the French and British armed forces be.

  • #2
    My very limited understanding is they were still prepping for a similar trench war but with more AFVs to break it open.

    They seemed to not catch on to the armored thrusts movement that the Germans seemed to be a little more open to. But I am by no means educated on this.

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    • #3
      The British were planning on a 32 division field force by Summer '41. Included in that were 6 armoured brigades (in three armoured divisions) and 5 tank brigades.

      Fair to say that French and British would have had lots and lots of tanks.

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      • #4
        So does Germany have any chance of winning in 41

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        • #5
          Unless the French get younger Generals and a new communications system, the Germans will do the same thing. This time with better tanks!

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #6
            Moved to Alternate Timelines
            "England expects that every man will do his duty!" (English crew members had better get ready for a tough fight against the combined French and Spanish fleets because that's what England expects! However, Scotland, Wales and Ireland appear to expect nothing so the Scottish, Welsh and Irish crew members can relax below decks if they like!)

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            • #7
              French tank output was planned to reach 500 per month by October 1940.
              Admittedly the great majority would have been R40s and H39s but quantity has a quality all of its own as someone once said.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                French tank output was planned to reach 500 per month by October 1940.
                Admittedly the great majority would have been R40s and H39s but quantity has a quality all of its own as someone once said.

                J. Stalin
                Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

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                • #9
                  I think the real difference would be the French Airforce. They'll have more fighters and modern fighters (including those they ordered from the US).

                  It is very unlikely that the luftwaffe would have had the effect it did.

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                  • #10
                    I don't see where more P-36's would make a difference against Bf 109's. Granted the Light Bombers would have been an improvement.

                    If the political situation averted war in 1939, why would the British civilian government mobilize?

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                      I don't see where more P-36's would make a difference against Bf 109's. Granted the Light Bombers would have been an improvement.
                      More these:

                      and these:



                      than P-36s that would give the Luftwaffe a hard time.

                      If the political situation averted war in 1939, why would the British civilian government mobilize?

                      Pruitt
                      Dunno what the point of departure here is, but the British government had (belatedly) pushed the button on a committment to the Continent in Spring '39.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                        More these:

                        and these:



                        than P-36s that would give the Luftwaffe a hard time.



                        Dunno what the point of departure here is, but the British government had (belatedly) pushed the button on a committment to the Continent in Spring '39.

                        Exactly ! D. 520s (or even the merlin-engined D.521, which remained a single prototype) available in the kind of numbers that the MS 406 was could've been a formidable fighting force. Couple that with Radar, and the Luftwaffe loses the Air Superiority of 1940.
                        Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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                        • #13
                          The British Government under Chamberlain was set on avoiding war so they could improve the economy. To ramp up Defense spending would have taken money away from the economy.

                          How would the invasion of Poland be different than the occupation of Austria and Czechoslavakia? The British did not mobilize for either of these events. If they avoid war in 1939 they would use that as an excuse NOT to mobilize and rearm.

                          Pruitt
                          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                            Unless the French get younger Generals and a new communications system, the Germans will do the same thing. This time with better tanks!

                            Pruitt
                            Daladier was on the verge of shaking out the senior generals in May 1940. By March he decide Gamelin was well past his 'dell by date'. He starte doing the political ground work for retiring Gamelin, and follow on replacement of others. In April he was down for several weeks with a severe cold or flu. In early May he scheduled the action for the second week of the month. then on the 10th May the Germans attacked and Daldier held off a few more says before finally ending the misery.

                            Absent a German victory, or even a German attack in the summer of 1940 a steady stream of retirements would have started and gone on into 1940. Georges, who as the commander of the NW Front, had more directly to do with the disaster of 1940, probablly would not have served more than a few weeks longer than Gamelin.

                            Both Horne 'To Lose a Battle' & Chapman 'Why France Fell' briefly cover Daladiers intent to replace Gamelin & Co.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              French tank output was planned to reach 500 per month by October 1940.
                              Admittedly the great majority would have been R40s and H39s but quantity has a quality all of its own as someone once said.
                              There were several 'Char Futur' projects in the prototype stage. The G variants, with larger crews, 75mm long guns, 60mm+ armor all around, and dome shaped turrets similar to a Soviet T54 were expecteded to go into production in 1941. True self propelled armored artillery were to enter production in latter 1940 as prototype tests were underway that spring ie: The ASU 40. Prototypes for a high velocity 90mm tank gun were under construction for testing later in 1940.

                              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                              I don't see where more P-36's would make a difference against Bf 109's. Granted the Light Bombers would have been an improvement.
                              More important are the aircraft models being ordered for 1941. In May 1930 orders for 3000+ aircraft from the US were being finalized and more in negotiation. French purchasing officers were examining every aircraft North American industry had to demonstrate, or on the drawing board. I've seen some aircraft engineers speculate on what the French might have done with the prototypes that eventually became the P38, P39, P40, P47, P51, F4F, ect...

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