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September 7, 1939: A date that will live in infamy!

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  • September 7, 1939: A date that will live in infamy!

    On September 7, 1939, the United States of America wakes up to discover that the Third Reich has declared war upon it. America is now a participant in the Second World War. Assume that all participants have the same force levels, equipment and deployments which they had historically at that moment. How goes the war from here?

    Disclosure: I posted this thread years before on another forum. I candidly admit to ripping myself off (with a minor edit).

  • #2
    Motivation for the dec-o'-war, please?
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    • #3
      Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
      Motivation for the dec-o'-war, please?
      Is it mandatory? I don't want to violate any forum rules.

      Hmm. I hadn't really given the reason for the POD much thought, to be honest. Perhaps an escalation over the incident with the SS Athenia, with the Germans over-reacting to the American diplomatic protest? I know historically, the Germans weren't anxious to rush into war with the United States at this particular moment. Absent a prolonged period of tensions slowly building to war, I think there would have to be a major mass-casualty incident at sea to precipitate hostilities. so quickly. The most likely scenario, admittedly, would be the Americans declaring war upon Germany for an attack on a US cruise ship which caused massive loss of life. Perhaps, I should have given the POD more thought.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by ossian View Post
        Is it mandatory? I don't want to violate any forum rules.

        Hmm. I hadn't really given the reason for the POD much thought, to be honest. Perhaps an escalation over the incident with the SS Athenia, with the Germans over-reacting to the American diplomatic protest? I know historically, the Germans weren't anxious to rush into war with the United States at this particular moment. Absent a prolonged period of tensions slowly building to war, I think there would have to be a major mass-casualty incident at sea to precipitate hostilities. so quickly. The most likely scenario, admittedly, would be the Americans declaring war upon Germany for an attack on a US cruise ship which caused massive loss of life. Perhaps, I should have given the POD more thought.
        Just trying to get a grasp of the scenario, not nit-picking. I usually stay out of Alt. but this one caught my eye.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by ossian View Post
          On September 7, 1939, the United States of America wakes up to discover that the Third Reich has declared war upon it. America is now a participant in the Second World War. Assume that all participants have the same force levels, equipment and deployments which they had historically at that moment. How goes the war from here?

          Disclosure: I posted this thread years before on another forum. I candidly admit to ripping myself off (with a minor edit).
          September 9th, Hitler assassinated in a bloody coup d'etat.

          September 11th, Hermann Goering becomes Chancellor

          September 12th, Gestapo agents arrest surviving SS leadership and the organisation is disbanded. Reinhard Heydrich flees to Hungary

          September 13th, German troops start to withdraw from Poland.

          September 16th, war ends much to Stalin's immense frustration.
          Signing out.

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          • #6
            You think Stalin would have not moved on Poland regardless?
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
              September 9th, Hitler assassinated in a bloody coup d'etat.

              September 11th, Hermann Goering becomes Chancellor

              September 12th, Gestapo agents arrest surviving SS leadership and the organisation is disbanded. Reinhard Heydrich flees to Hungary

              September 13th, German troops start to withdraw from Poland.

              September 16th, war ends much to Stalin's immense frustration.
              There won't be much entertainment for us if the war ends so quickly!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                You think Stalin would have not moved on Poland regardless?
                No, too many imponderables, at least in September 1939. If Germany descends into chaos, which is quite possible, he might but more likely he'd try to subvert either nation, or even both!
                Signing out.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ossian View Post
                  There won't be much entertainment for us if the war ends so quickly!
                  Well, I had Heydrich flee for a reason.
                  Signing out.

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                  • #10
                    You'd need a major incident with minimum resources. Say a US merchant ship blew up in a German harbor and the cargo gassed half the city. Early reports were that it was phosgene or mustard gas.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                      No, too many imponderables, at least in September 1939. If Germany descends into chaos, which is quite possible, he might but more likely he'd try to subvert either nation, or even both!
                      I'd lean toward "kick 'em while they (Poland) are down" myself. Stalin might have wanted to capitalize on the confusion. He couldn't be sure the next Chancellor wouldn't be worse than Hitler.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                        You think Stalin would have not moved on Poland regardless?
                        If Stalin's de facto ally collapsed so rapidly prior to Soviet intervention in Poland, I think he might well change his mind. He really wasn't that much of a gambler in foreign policy. However, I do have my doubts regarding such complete upheaval in Germany. It seems unlikely to me.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                          You'd need a major incident with minimum resources. Say a US merchant ship blew up in a German harbor and the cargo gassed half the city. Early reports were that it was phosgene or mustard gas.
                          Possibly. That could work. I lean more to an incident in which a US warship sinks a German vessel. Perhaps an overeager destroyer skipper mistakes a German liner for some sort of combat vessel and torpedos her just to be on the safe side.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                            I'd lean toward "kick 'em while they (Poland) are down" myself. Stalin might have wanted to capitalize on the confusion. He couldn't be sure the next Chancellor wouldn't be worse than Hitler.
                            Well, I don't think he wanted all of Poland. He was confident that the territories east of the Curzon Line could be taken without intervention from The West but all of Poland would be a bit of a mouthful, especially with the Baltic States still independent and East Prussia sitting there.
                            Signing out.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ossian View Post
                              Possibly. That could work. I lean more to an incident in which a US warship sinks a German vessel. Perhaps an overeager destroyer skipper mistakes a German liner for some sort of combat vessel and torpedos her just to be on the safe side.
                              The freighter scenario allows for a "close to home" disaster that could be construed as an act of war against German civilians. The theater there would be historic. Dead German Frauen, kinder, und hunds on the newsreels.
                              Hyperwar: World War II on the World Wide Web
                              Hyperwar, Whats New
                              World War II Resources
                              The best place in the world to "work".

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