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  • Appeasement Continued

    Appeasement Continued Time Line

    January 26 - February 20 1939
    Chamberlain also issued guarantees of Switzerland, Belgium and the Netherlands, believing through such diplomatic devices he could block Hitler from waging aggression in Western Europe.

    15 March 1939
    German destruction of the rump state of Czecho-Slovakia

    17 March 1939
    Chamberlain gave a speech in Birmingham where he stated Britain would oppose any German effort to dominate the world, by war if necessary

    Mid-March 1939
    Chamberlain's government was rocked by the so-called "Romanian War Scare.

    18 March
    Chamberlain in a cabinet meeting said he had ‘now come definitely to the conclusion that Hitler’s attitude made it impossible to continue to negotiate, on the old basis, with the Nazi regime’. Yet, he was still reluctant to consider the idea of a defence arrangement with the*Soviet Union.

    30 March
    Chamberlain resists pressure to guarantee Polish and Romanian independence.
    Or that of other Eastern European nations.
    Ever since 1919, it had been British policy to refuse any security commitments in Eastern Europe as the region was regarded as too unstable, and hence likely to involve Britain in unwanted wars. In 1925, Chamberlain’s half-brother, the British Foreign Secretary, Sir Austen Chamberlain had famously stated in public that the Polish Corridor was "not worth the bones of a single British grenadier"

    23 August
    Soviet-Nazi Pact

    1 September
    Germany invades Poland.

    Britain condems the invasion and demands Germans withdraw their troops.
    Germany does not respond.
    France and Britain guarantee the independence of Romania, Greece and Turkey.

    The French Socialist government bans the communist party because of the Nazi-Soviet pact.

    28 Sept Estonia signs a 10-year Mutual Assistance Pact with the Soviet Union, which allows the Soviets to have 30 000-men military bases in Estonia. As a gift in return Stalin promises to respect Estonian independence.

    3 Oct
    Lithuanians meet Stalin and Molotov in Moscow. Stalin offers Lithuania the city of Vilnius (in Poland) in return for allowing Soviet military bases in Lithuania. The Lithuanians are reluctant.

    5 Oct:
    Latvia signs a 10-year Mutual Assistance Pact with the Soviet Union, which allows the Soviets to have 25,000 men in military bases in Latvia. Stalin promises to respect Latvian independence.

    10 Oct:
    Lithuania signs a 15-year Mutual Assistance Pact with the Soviet Union, which allows the Soviets to have 20,000 men in military bases in Lithuania. In a secret protocol, Vilnius is made Lithuanian territory.

    12 Oct:
    Finland's representatives meet Stalin and Molotov in Moscow. Soviet Union demands Finland gives up a military base near Helsinki and exchange some Soviet and Finnish territories to protect Leningrad against Great Britain or the eventual future threat of Germany.

    13 Nov:
    Negotiations between Finland and Soviet Union break down. Finns doubt that Germans and Russians have agreed to include Finland in the Soviet sphere of influence.

    30 Nov
    The Soviet Union attacks Finland

    14 Nov:
    The USSR is expelled from the League of Nations in response to the Soviet invasion of Finland on November 30.

  • #2
    So Germany still has it's merchant marine and full access to world markets? No embargoes, trade restrictions/sanctions?
    Last edited by Javaman; 15 Oct 13, 12:40.
    "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
    -Omar Bradley
    "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
    -Anonymous US Army logistician

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Javaman View Post
      So Germany still has it's merchant marine and full access to work markets? No embargoes, trade restrictions/sanctions?
      That is correct.

      Comment


      • #4
        Seems to me that appeasement will ultimately work out better for the Western Allies since their rearmament efforts were just getting up to speed. In the absence of war with Germany the ymay well fight the Soviets over Finland.
        "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
        -Omar Bradley
        "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
        -Anonymous US Army logistician

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Javaman View Post
          In the absence of war with Germany the ymay well fight the Soviets over Finland.
          Definitely not, it was in the Soviet sphere of influence according to the Pact Appendix. What's more likely is the sending of an expeditionary corps to Finland faster than expected (considering Britain and France started hastily preparing to war in September 1939). Probably, part of the BEF could've been diverted for this purpose. It's also possible that they would've declared war on the USSR before the Finnish defences collapsed and attacked Baku oilfields. This would push the SU right into Hitler's embrace, which will lead to a rather curious international situation to say the least.
          www.histours.ru

          Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

          Comment


          • #6
            5 March 1940
            Finland tells the Soviets they will agree to their terms for ending the war. The next day they send emissaries to Moscow to negotiate a peace treaty.

            12 March 1940
            In Moscow, Finland signs a peace treaty with the Soviet Union after 105 days of conflict. The Finns are forced to give up significant territory in exchange for independence.

            29 March 1940
            The Russians want new territories. Molotov speaks to the Supreme Soviet, about "an unsettled dispute", the question of Romanian Bessarabia.

            20 April

            Chamberlain and the Conservative Party win the election in the UK.

            May early

            French Socialists win French election by a small margin.

            2 June
            Italy attacks Yugoslavia.

            28 June:
            The Red Army occupies Romanian Bessarabia and the northern part of Bukovina.

            2 July
            The USSR annexes Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina.

            3 July
            The USSR formally annexes Lithuania.

            5 July
            The USSR formally annexes Latvia.

            6 July
            The USSR formally annexes Estonia.

            4 July
            Hungary invades Yugoslavia.

            7 July
            Bulgaria invades Yugoslavia.

            12 July
            Yugoslavia surrenders.

            August

            Yugoslavia split up.
            Croatia and Montenegro established as states as is a much reduced Serbia.
            Albania given Kosovo.
            Most of Macedonia given to Bulgaria.
            Vojvodina given to Hungary.

            22 September

            Chamberlain who is suffering from Cancer resigns as Prime Minister.

            27 September
            The Tripartite Pact is signed in Berlin by Germany, Italy, and Japan, promising mutual aid. An informal name,"Axis", emerges.

            2 Oct

            Samuel Hoare become Prime Minister of the UK.

            20 November
            Hungary signs the Tripartite Pact.

            23 Nov
            Romania signs the Tripartite Pact.

            24 Nov
            The Slovak Republic signs the Tripartite Pact.

            25 Nov
            The Soviet Union gives her terms to join the Tripartite Pact including substantial new territorial gains for Russia.

            1 Dec
            Croatia signs the Tripartite Pact.

            Comment


            • #7
              It was going so well then you decided to invade Yugoslavia, now you have gotten a whole heap of trouble for yourself.

              I would have done this differently, by alowing Yugoslavia to sign the Tripartite treaty and that the coup fails, this leads to Yugoslavian backlash as the coup was backed by the British Government, thus meaning that Yugoslavia has no problem in allowing Italian and German forces transiting Yugoslavia in to take on the British forces and the Greek Army, once this has been dealt with Italy formally annexes Greece and then the German and Italian forces done, they pull out of Yugoslavia thus never needing to keep the 12th Army permanently in the Balkans.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                Definitely not, it was in the Soviet sphere of influence according to the Pact Appendix. What's more likely is the sending of an expeditionary corps to Finland faster than expected (considering Britain and France started hastily preparing to war in September 1939). Probably, part of the BEF could've been diverted for this purpose. It's also possible that they would've declared war on the USSR before the Finnish defences collapsed and attacked Baku oilfields. This would push the SU right into Hitler's embrace, which will lead to a rather curious international situation to say the least.
                From that standpoint, i agree.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                  It was going so well then you decided to invade Yugoslavia, now you have gotten a whole heap of trouble for yourself.

                  I would have done this differently, by alowing Yugoslavia to sign the Tripartite treaty and that the coup fails, this leads to Yugoslavian backlash as the coup was backed by the British Government, thus meaning that Yugoslavia has no problem in allowing Italian and German forces transiting Yugoslavia in to take on the British forces and the Greek Army, once this has been dealt with Italy formally annexes Greece and then the German and Italian forces done, they pull out of Yugoslavia thus never needing to keep the 12th Army permanently in the Balkans.
                  Britain would have no reason to plan a coup in Yugoslavia if it is not at war with Germany.
                  Germany would not be so desperate to get Yugoslavia in the Tripartite pact with no need to gain access to intervene in Greece.
                  Italy however was very keen for war with Yugoslavia and had made several plans to invade.
                  With no distraction in the West or Africa this is were they will go.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    1 March 1941

                    Bulgaria signs the Tripartite Pact.

                    15 May 1941
                    Germany and Romania invade the USSR.

                    19 May 1941
                    Hungary and Slovakia declare war on the Soviet Union.

                    The Soviet Union bombs Helsinki. Finland pronounces a state of war between Finland and Soviet Union. Continuation war is started.

                    3 June 1941
                    Italy declares war on the USSR
                    Mussolini orders the formation of the Italian Expeditionary Force.
                    The initial force will consist of 3 cavalry, 6 infantry and 1 armour division.

                    5 June
                    Italian-occupied Albania declares war on the Soviet Union.

                    7 June
                    Croatia declares war on the USSR.

                    28 June

                    Rommel takes Leningrad with two Panzer Divisions after defying orders to wait for the infantry to catch up.

                    1 July
                    Italian pressure forces Turkey to open up the straights into the Black Sea.

                    4 July
                    Italian Fleet enters the Black Sea.

                    4 Oct

                    Moscow surrounded

                    4 Nov

                    Moscow captured

                    5 December

                    Soviet counter offensive begins.
                    German offensives ended.
                    Rostov, the Crimea and all land west of the Donets is in German hands as well as the Dons down to the Ukraine.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Philip F View Post
                      1 March 1941

                      Bulgaria signs the Tripartite Pact.

                      15 May 1941
                      Germany and Romania invade the USSR.

                      19 May 1941
                      Hungary and Slovakia declare war on the Soviet Union.

                      The Soviet Union bombs Helsinki. Finland pronounces a state of war between Finland and Soviet Union. Continuation war is started.

                      3 June 1941
                      Italy declares war on the USSR
                      Mussolini orders the formation of the Italian Expeditionary Force.
                      The initial force will consist of 3 cavalry, 6 infantry and 1 armour division.

                      5 June
                      Italian-occupied Albania declares war on the Soviet Union.

                      7 June
                      Croatia declares war on the USSR.

                      28 June

                      Rommel takes Leningrad with two Panzer Divisions after defying orders to wait for the infantry to catch up.

                      1 July
                      Italian pressure forces Turkey to open up the straights into the Black Sea.

                      4 July
                      Italian Fleet enters the Black Sea.

                      4 Oct

                      Moscow surrounded

                      4 Nov

                      Moscow captured

                      5 December

                      Soviet counter offensive begins.
                      German offensives ended.
                      Rostov, the Crimea and all land west of the Donets is in German hands as well as the Dons down to the Ukraine.
                      No LL from the US/UK for the Soviets?
                      Interesting that with Leningrad taken that means that the Volkov Front and pretty much everything Northwest of Moscow has collapsed thus freeing up Army Group North for Spring 1942.

                      Also, with the Iatlian fleet in the Black sea and Turkey cooperating that has big ramifications for the Axis efforts in Syria/Iraq.
                      "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
                      -Omar Bradley
                      "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
                      -Anonymous US Army logistician

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Philip F View Post
                        28 June

                        Rommel takes Leningrad with two Panzer Divisions after defying orders to wait for the infantry to catch up.
                        www.histours.ru

                        Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Javaman View Post
                          No LL from the US/UK for the Soviets?
                          Interesting that with Leningrad taken that means that the Volkov Front and pretty much everything Northwest of Moscow has collapsed thus freeing up Army Group North for Spring 1942.

                          Also, with the Iatlian fleet in the Black sea and Turkey cooperating that has big ramifications for the Axis efforts in Syria/Iraq.
                          The German Fleet will have much more remove for operations in support of forces in Finland and in the Baltic.
                          In the Black Sea the Italian Fleet will be able to cut off Sevastopol and Odessa from re-supply and Axis shipping will aid the logistics of the Axis forces in the area.
                          The Germans will not have had any loses in France, Norway. Benelux, N Africa or the Battle of Britain at this point so they will have far greater armour and airpower at hand.
                          Turkey is not in the war and there in no war in the middle east.
                          Iraq is a British client state and Syria is held by France.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                            Leningrad could have been taken in July 1941 in actual history if the German Armour was allowed to push on rather than waiting for infantry to catch up.
                            The chance was wasted however and Leningrad was prepared for defence.
                            With more armour available and some one like Rommel on the scene they may have taken it at this point or earlier with the earlier attack date posted here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Even if an early armoured assault had not taken Leningrad the extra infantry available from no forces deployed in the West,, Balkans and Africa would allow the infantry to assault and take the city in 1941.

                              Comment

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