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Was Wiemar ever going to rearm

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  • Was Wiemar ever going to rearm

    I have not seen a topic llke this but was the Weimar Germany ever going to rearm. Germany/Prussia has always had a strong tradition with a potentially hostile Poland and a vengeful France it seems that Germany could manuever into building itself up a defensive army. So the question is was Weimar ever going to rearm itself and how would it go along doing it.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Lionhearti View Post
    I have not seen a topic llke this but was the Weimar Germany ever going to rearm. Germany/Prussia has always had a strong tradition with a potentially hostile Poland and a vengeful France it seems that Germany could manuever into building itself up a defensive army. So the question is was Weimar ever going to rearm itself and how would it go along doing it.
    It was trying to get aspects of the Versailles Settlement revoked, the severe restrictions on the size and makeup of Germany's armed forces being one. The difference between a Weimar re-armament and that of the Nazis is that Weimar's would have been a much longer process.
    Signing out.

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    • #3
      Well would France (lets face it the country that is needed to squeeze Germany anyway) allow it is under a democratic regime

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Lionhearti View Post
        Well would France (lets face it the country that is needed to squeeze Germany anyway) allow it is under a democratic regime
        That would depend upon the size and speed of German rearmament. While the Weimar army was small, France wasn't concerned too much about Germany. It was busy cultivating alliances of dubious worth on Germany's eastern flanks so thought it had that aspect covered. Provided Weimar Germany remains a democracy, the government can only spend so much on rearmament before the calls on social spending have to be heeded. Democracies are quite responsive to the ballot box.

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        • #5
          In actual history, the Germans began cheating on their Versailles restrictions on day one. The rearmament process was started early enough under Von Seeckt, entirely in Weimar times.

          I agree with Full Monty that of course a Weimar rearmament would not have run the risks with the national economy that the Nazi regime chose to run.
          Michele

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          • #6
            Looking post WW2, West-Germany was allowed to 're-arm' ten years after the war, in 1955. I take the establishment of the Bundeswehr as date for re-arming.
            Of course the acutely felt Soviet threat on the other side of the inner-German border played a role here; this factor that was much more distant in the case of re-arming Weimar-Germany during the interbellum.

            I do agree with the other posters that especially with a vengeful France on the other side of the Rhine, a re-arming Weimar-Germany would have happened eventually albeit at a much slower pace.
            BoRG

            You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lionhearti View Post
              Well would France (lets face it the country that is needed to squeeze Germany anyway) allow it is under a democratic regime
              Historically, at least after the Ruhr occupation fiasco, France would not move without the support of its major allies. In 1936 Britain played the 'Bolshevik threat' card as the Rhineland crisis threatened to destabilise the Continent and I have no doubt that they would do so in this ATL if France objected too strongly to a slow German rearmament. But it's not France that would threaten to cause problems, it's Poland. After all, Germany's Western borders had been agreed at Locarno, it's Eastern borders were still disputed. If Germany rearms there will be genuine fear in Eastern Europe, especially Poland, that the Germans will try and settle the disputes by force.
              Signing out.

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              • #8
                Yes, but don't you think that Poland in say the mid 1920's (giving the Weimar time to rearm) would be able to hold their own against the Germans?

                I know they were not as modern as most W. European armies, but they did have numbers. After the Russian-Polish War, I think the Polish army might have believed they could hold their own against Germany.
                "War is sorrowful, but there is one thing infinitely more horrible than the worst horrors of war, and that is the feeling that nothing is worth fighting for..."
                -- Harper's Weekly, December 31, 1864

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Twitter3 View Post
                  Yes, but don't you think that Poland in say the mid 1920's (giving the Weimar time to rearm) would be able to hold their own against the Germans?

                  I know they were not as modern as most W. European armies, but they did have numbers. After the Russian-Polish War, I think the Polish army might have believed they could hold their own against Germany.
                  Good point.
                  It is entirely possible that well into the 30's the Poles were the stronger party or at least believed themselves to be so.
                  After all Poland was a nation forged by war with a proud martial tradition.
                  BoRG

                  You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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                  • #10
                    One should investigate the Reichswehr. The answer is before your eyes.

                    After all Poland was a nation forged by war with a proud martial tradition.


                    More so than the Prussians and Germans as a whole? Hardly.
                    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post



                      More so than the Prussians and Germans as a whole? Hardly.
                      Now we're getting into an interesting debate

                      I have good reasons to disagree with you but would actually like the Polish posters here to champion the Polish cause.
                      BoRG

                      You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Twitter3 View Post
                        Yes, but don't you think that Poland in say the mid 1920's (giving the Weimar time to rearm) would be able to hold their own against the Germans?

                        I know they were not as modern as most W. European armies, but they did have numbers. After the Russian-Polish War, I think the Polish army might have believed they could hold their own against Germany.
                        The Polish Army was pretty confident they could at least hold the Germans in 1939 through to 1940! But I would expect them to be a match for any Reichswehr force up until the 1930s. Although it would depend on a lot of imponderable factors.
                        Signing out.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lionhearti View Post
                          So the question is was Weimar ever going to rearm itself and how would it go along doing it.
                          I would say yes they were and there were plans in place for rapid expansion later used by the Nazis. All that was required was a political reason or catalyst for this plan to be allowed to go forward. In the 20's it would have been very easy to raise Infantry divisions given the massive number of veterans available, Freikorps members and huge number of weapons and munitions hidden after 1919.
                          As an arms collector I can say that when looking at specimens of the Gew 98, there are only so many with the "1920" Versailles stamp denoting that they were counted and claimed by the Germans. Those specimens are dwarfed in number the the Gew 98's that have updated rear sights and either Weimar or Nazi arms inspector marks which basically means they were also kept and only saw the light of day when the shackles came off. Still more were remanufactured into K98's (still no 1920 stamp). I have seen the same with MG08/15's and there were quite a few new MG13's out there as well. I'm not familiar with the Field Artillery situation, but I can guess they clandestinely mothballed more than a few.
                          "Amateurs study tactics; professionals study logistics"
                          -Omar Bradley
                          "Not everyone who studies logistics is a professional logistician, and there is no way to understand when you don't know what you don't know."
                          -Anonymous US Army logistician

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Major Sennef View Post
                            Now we're getting into an interesting debate

                            I have good reasons to disagree with you but would actually like the Polish posters here to champion the Polish cause.
                            Sticking with the P/P Polish/Prussians history imo shows that the Prussians always came out on top. The original Prussians were all but totally wiped out by the Teutonic Knights and replaced by North Germans from the Bremen area. The Knights/Prussians extended their rule over much of the South Baltic Coast to include large areas that had been Polish. Advance a couple hundred years and then we have the partition of Poland 3 times by Prussia, Russia and Austria.

                            Other than the Polish King John being the main figure in saving Vienna from the Turks, their brave defense in WWII, compared to the Prussians they come in second place when it come to a warrior tradition.
                            Last edited by Half Pint John; 15 Oct 13, 11:56.
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                              Sticking with the P/P Polish/Prussians history imo shows that the Prussians always came out on top. The original Prussians were all but totally wiped out by the Teutonic Knights and replaced by North Germans from the Bremen area. The Knights/Prussians extended their rule over much of the South Baltic Coast to include large areas that had been Polish. Advance a couple hundred years and then we have the partition of Poland 3 times by Prussia, Russia and Austria.

                              Other than the Polish King John being the main figure in saving Vienna from the Turks, their brave defense in WWII, compared to the Prussians they come in second place when it come to a warrior tradition.
                              The Teutonic Knights got several kinds of spanked in 1410 and became vassals of the Poles. It gets really interesting when Brandenburg is added to the mix.

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