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  • #31
    Originally posted by SRV Ron View Post
    One thing for certain, the Japanese Government was arming their civilians, women and children, with pike poles. They were going to be stationed by the millions on the beaches in order to repel any invasion by the Americans. Given how the brainwashed civilians committed mass suicide when Okinawa was invaded the casualties in an invasion of the Japanese homeland would have been in the millions. A similar situation would have occurred in Japan with an invasion.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa

    Thankfully, the bomb convinced the Emperor and the Japanese Government of the futility of continued resistance. That saved millions of lives that would have been needlessly lost in fighting to the bitter end.
    Not only with pike poles but with bows and arrows, crossbows, might not seem like modern warfare, but when you dip a arrow head into poop with all its bacteria, and it ends up in the bloodstream you get septicaemia and other nasties such as poisons. Also not mentioned before but many female divers were to be positioned into the breakwaters with explosive strapped them, yes i am talking about suicide bombers, once a landing barge passes over them they set of the explosive and they had thousands of these women. Over 10 million had been drafted into the Imperial Japanese Millitia.

    Plus as pointed out the invaders would face anti-personel traps that made Vietnam a picnic.

    Let us not forget the allies woefully underestimated the number of IJA home divisions, the Japanese had over 100 home divisions, if memory is correct the amount of IJA home division in the north island was about 10, these unlike the gutted divisions in Manchuria were well trained and well equipped, also many came from locals that unlike the so called sterotype short sighted and skinny troops were sharp eyed and many over 6 foot and built like brick outhouses.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
      Not only with pike poles but with bows and arrows, crossbows, might not seem like modern warfare, but when you dip a arrow head into poop with all its bacteria, and it ends up in the bloodstream you get septicaemia and other nasties such as poisons. Also not mentioned before but many female divers were to be positioned into the breakwaters with explosive strapped them, yes i am talking about suicide bombers, once a landing barge passes over them they set of the explosive and they had thousands of these women. Over 10 million had been drafted into the Imperial Japanese Millitia.

      Plus as pointed out the invaders would face anti-personel traps that made Vietnam a picnic.

      Let us not forget the allies woefully underestimated the number of IJA home divisions, the Japanese had over 100 home divisions, if memory is correct the amount of IJA home division in the north island was about 10, these unlike the gutted divisions in Manchuria were well trained and well equipped, also many came from locals that unlike the so called sterotype short sighted and skinny troops were sharp eyed and many over 6 foot and built like brick outhouses.
      Source for this, especially the last part?

      And, no, I'm not calling you for made-up BS this time. This is very interesting and if true I honestly want to read more about it.
      The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by ShAA View Post
        The Kwantung Army relied on heavy and well-concealed fortifications, similar to their island defences, which were crushed in the first days of the campaign, and you don't need very strong forces to support them.
        The Japanese Fortified Regions in Manchuria were essentially islands of strongly fortified areas that could (and were) easily bypassed and isolated.

        To compare the density of the Fortified regions to the density of the fortifications on the Japanese held islands on the Pacific is disingenuous at best.
        Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
          also many came from locals that unlike the so called sterotype short sighted and skinny troops were sharp eyed and many over 6 foot and built like brick outhouses.
          The basic staple ration in Japan in July 1945 was 1816 calories a day - officially. Various estimates place its actual value at around 1600 calories. Internal refugees, poor city dwellers, old people and so on, were eating even less, about 1200 calories a day. Since the ration was family-based, old people allowed themselves to starve in order to see their grandchildren fed, and the death was not reported to authorities so that granpa's ration could still be taken even after he'd gone.
          Nurses working at the Aiiku hospital in Tokyo were eating 1475 calories a day - not in August 1945, but in June 1944.
          Soldiers certainly ate better than civilians, but by the summer of 1945, after a 27% drop in the home production of rice and with imports virtually non-existent (1,675,000 tons of rice were imported during one year between 1939-40; 236,000 tons during one year between 1944-45), even they were around 2000 calories a day. It's hard to remain a brick house on such a diet. It's hard to run into the waves with a bomb vest on 1200 calories a day. It's hard to draw a bow.
          Michele

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
            Source for this, especially the last part?

            And, no, I'm not calling you for made-up BS this time. This is very interesting and if true I honestly want to read more about it.
            From an uncle who survived a PoW camp in Changi, also the Australian Army had especially indoctrinated its troops to believe that all Japanese were short, skinny folk and are all short sighted with "Coke Bottle Glasses" that because of their eye sight could not fire a rifle, that came from my own dad who served in WW2 this was instilled into him during basic training. Also my uncle Earnest who had the same indoctrination when he joined the RAAF.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Michele View Post
              The basic staple ration in Japan in July 1945 was 1816 calories a day - officially. Various estimates place its actual value at around 1600 calories. Internal refugees, poor city dwellers, old people and so on, were eating even less, about 1200 calories a day. Since the ration was family-based, old people allowed themselves to starve in order to see their grandchildren fed, and the death was not reported to authorities so that granpa's ration could still be taken even after he'd gone.
              Nurses working at the Aiiku hospital in Tokyo were eating 1475 calories a day - not in August 1945, but in June 1944.
              Soldiers certainly ate better than civilians, but by the summer of 1945, after a 27% drop in the home production of rice and with imports virtually non-existent (1,675,000 tons of rice were imported during one year between 1939-40; 236,000 tons during one year between 1944-45), even they were around 2000 calories a day. It's hard to remain a brick house on such a diet. It's hard to run into the waves with a bomb vest on 1200 calories a day. It's hard to draw a bow.
              Not according the official doccuments pertaining to Operation Downfall, i have seen the plans and the subsequent studies on what the Japanese had, so unless you are calling the American Millitary experts liars then i suggest you read the official doccuments, instead of wikipedia.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by tigersqn View Post
                The Japanese Fortified Regions in Manchuria were essentially islands of strongly fortified areas that could (and were) easily bypassed and isolated.

                To compare the density of the Fortified regions to the density of the fortifications on the Japanese held islands on the Pacific is disingenuous at best.
                And especially the Japanese home islands.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                  From an uncle who survived a PoW camp in Changi, also the Australian Army had especially indoctrinated its troops to believe that all Japanese were short, skinny folk and are all short sighted with "Coke Bottle Glasses" that because of their eye sight could not fire a rifle, that came from my own dad who served in WW2 this was instilled into him during basic training. Also my uncle Earnest who had the same indoctrination when he joined the RAAF.
                  Okay, thanks. I was hoping for an actual link with actual evidence, but this will have to do.
                  The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                    Not according the official doccuments pertaining to Operation Downfall, i have seen the plans and the subsequent studies on what the Japanese had, so unless you are calling the American Millitary experts liars then i suggest you read the official doccuments, instead of wikipedia.
                    Dude. The source is not wikipedia. The source is detailed, academic, peer-reviewed historians' studies that took place after the facts. You know, when one, instead of relying on wartime incomplete intelligence assessments about one of the combatants made by the other combatant can rely on actual reliable data.
                    Have you ever heard the expression "hindsight is 20/20"? I suppose you haven't, or you wouldn't have made such a preposterous suggestion.

                    Telling me that one should read US intelligence guesstimates instead of actual data is like stating that one should think that the Soviet Army of 1941 had the number of divisions that the German guesstimated that they had.

                    I hope this is clear to you on your first reading of this post, because I'm not going to waste my time explaining it again.

                    That cleared, post the references. Post references to US 1945 intelligence reports that stated that the Japanese were eating more than what I provided.

                    While you look your sources up, you could do well to yourself by reading this:

                    Starvation and Deprivation in World WarII-era Japan
                    Michele

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
                      Okay, thanks. I was hoping for an actual link with actual evidence, but this will have to do.
                      I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
                      Michele

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Michele View Post
                        I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
                        I was giving the benefit of the doubt. That'll learn me.
                        The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Well I would likely not exist as my Grandad was part of the British Invasion force.
                          If it had been up to me I would have let the Soviets take all of Japan and Korea in exchange for Poland and Czechoslovakia and maybe if I could get it ending aid to the Communists in China.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Michele View Post
                            I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
                            Yeah whatever.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                              Also not mentioned before but many female divers were to be positioned into the breakwaters with explosive strapped them, yes i am talking about suicide bombers, once a landing barge passes over them they set of the explosive and they had thousands of these women. Over 10 million had been drafted into the Imperial Japanese Millitia.
                              While the plans for kamikaze speedboats, and other small craft, to attack the invasion fleet is well known, why was I not informed of this interesting piece of information regarding female suicide divers?

                              Where does it come from?


                              Granddad
                              "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." Bertrand Russell

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                                Yeah whatever.
                                So you actually have no US intelligence sources to quote that stated that the Japanese population was eating better than what I mentioned above. Thanks for acknowledging that. Better late than never, to admit that you were wrong.
                                Michele

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