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  • #61
    Originally posted by Michele View Post
    You are now discussing why we are interested in alternate history, which is another topic.
    Behold...

    You, I, and everyone else has their alternate timeline versions. Missing, and not, those of others doesn't preclude me from having one of my exclusive own. If so, there would only be one, perhaps two, three tops here.
    I like the fun of not going along in total with everyone elses ideas and thoughts. However, and if and when I do, I will take any scenario you bring forth and agree with you to the nth degree and start a petition naming you Ceasar. Fair enough? Now, until that time let a guy (meaning me) have some fun and not an entrant into the anal-retentive go along-get along hall of fame. Thanks. Much obliged. It's a game, not life and death.
    I count seven or so direct references to me. Not we and what they and all like references should and should not do, just me or I. MY interests, and how to display them.

    All references to others; you, everyone, etc., total five, and each one is in reference to their own thoughts and ideas in how they comport themselves, and with no interference from me, in how they play the alternate timeline game.

    I believe I made my point and if not, lets expand a little more.

    Everyone, including myself, can play the game and make up their own rules and scenarios as they see fit. If kibitzing, suggestion, advice, whatever, is taken and applied from others, fine. If not, well, what's the problem?

    May we please go back to a little speculative fun now, or is there some issue with that as well as you might so sayeth? Lighten up...the war's been over since 1945, and the allied forces won it.
    Youthful Exuberance Is No Match For Old Age And Treachery.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by holly6 View Post
      Oh sure, ruin our fun. But Adolf did spend some time in Austria, and the Bunker should have withstood anything short of a direct hit. Air and water might be a different thing.
      The short term problem is communications. Aside from every vehicle in sight wrecked there will be no telephone or radio operable within tens of kilometers of the bunker. Even the best organized rescue operation will require over 12 hours to get Hitler to a new CP. Zossen was the nearest, but he might not consider it & insist on traveling further. Realistically Hitler will be out of effective communications for 15 - 20 hours, which leads to all sorts of other friction as the other nazi leaders and Army leaders do not know if it is even possible he is still alive.

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      • #63
        I assume the Bomb would have been dropped on a City.

        There are coming three points to mind:
        (1) Safety - Bomber MUST reach target.
        (2) Impact - Bomb shall have maximum impact.
        (3) Future - City should ideally be situated in the (future) Soviet Zone not in your own...

        So IMO it would NOT have been Berlin or Munich. Bad Impact - both Cities are widespread. Not safe. Too far into enemy territory.
        The target cannot be that far in the Reich, priority No 1 would be to fly the Bomber safely over the target, minimizing the danger of a downing. Flying some hundred miles over enemy territory is risky. One lucky AA shot, one Fighter coming through (Jet Aircraft) could end the sortie. Another question would be if you Escort one A-Bomber with masses of Fighters or "disguise" it (like recon that is hopefully left alone)?

        So. Here we are. I vote for Stuttgart, my home town, it would assure a good impact - it's a nice round valley. A bomb detonating 500-1000m over the center would be devastating. OK its in the western zone but not too far if the Bomber comes straith from the west (i assume it would take off from Britain) after flying south to France and then turning east when reaching Paris.
        One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Hanov View Post
          I assume the Bomb would have been dropped on a City.

          There are coming three points to mind:
          (1) Safety - Bomber MUST reach target.
          (2) Impact - Bomb shall have maximum impact.
          (3) Future - City should ideally be situated in the (future) Soviet Zone not in your own...
          What about using the points that were actually used for the bombing of Japan?

          1) totally or relatively untouched target - so that the real effectiveness of the bombs can be assessed,
          2) not the capital, we need a government to exist after the bombs, so that they can issue surrender orders.
          Michele

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Michele View Post
            What about using the points that were actually used for the bombing of Japan?

            1) totally or relatively untouched target - so that the real effectiveness of the bombs can be assessed,
            2) not the capital, we need a government to exist after the bombs, so that they can issue surrender orders.
            True!
            That is way Dresden was also coming to my mind. Not in your own later occupation zone and untouched.
            But would it be a save target? The Jap cities were all coastal. In Germany one would have to penetrate deep into the mainland. At least when targeting Dresden. That could be risky. So i thought of Stuttgart....
            One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Hanov View Post
              True!
              That is way Dresden was also coming to my mind. Not in your own later occupation zone and untouched.
              But would it be a save target? The Jap cities were all coastal. In Germany one would have to penetrate deep into the mainland. At least when targeting Dresden. That could be risky. So i thought of Stuttgart....
              It met all the requirements. A bomb let lose over the New Palace would have contained much of the damage to the center of town leveling just about everything from Botang to Wagenberg tunnel and from Kaltental to the Neckar. Interesting driving through on B14 when all of a sudden the new buildings are gone and only the older ones are still in place. To bad the city didn't spend the time a effort to rebuild the center after the old buildings like the Marthalle, Old Schoss etc. As German city's go I think Stgt is rather on the ugly side. To much new and not enough of the old.
              "Ask not what your country can do for you"

              Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

              you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                It met all the requirements. A bomb let lose over the New Palace would have contained much of the damage to the center of town leveling just about everything from Botang to Wagenberg tunnel and from Kaltental to the Neckar. Interesting driving through on B14 when all of a sudden the new buildings are gone and only the older ones are still in place. To bad the city didn't spend the time a effort to rebuild the center after the old buildings like the Marthalle, Old Schoss etc. As German city's go I think Stgt is rather on the ugly side. To much new and not enough of the old.
                So i'm very happy it was all over by then!
                As you correctly pointed out, Stuttgart today has enough ugly places already, imgaine how it would look after a little Boy or a fat Man...
                One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Hanov View Post
                  So i'm very happy it was all over by then!
                  As you correctly pointed out, Stuttgart today has enough ugly places already, imgaine how it would look after a little Boy or a fat Man...
                  The thing is that other German cities here also heavily damaged by the bombings and even ground fighting such as Nuremberg. I'll guess you have been there. What does the city center look like? The old and very old buildings were rebuilt and it still has that feeling of old and culture. The same is true with Dresden. Some thing that is lacking in Stgt.
                  "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                  Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                  you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                    The thing is that other German cities here also heavily damaged by the bombings and even ground fighting such as Nuremberg. I'll guess you have been there. What does the city center look like? The old and very old buildings were rebuilt and it still has that feeling of old and culture. The same is true with Dresden. Some thing that is lacking in Stgt.
                    Sad but true.
                    One should not forget that the bombings rendered some 7 million homeless and that more millions (Vertriebene) were pouring in from the East. So building was a priority. Rebuilding in the old way was probably too expensive and time consuming. I actually saw fotos of Stuttgart in the 1930s it was really beautiful... Maybe they should stop wasting money for S21 and instead rebuild some of that old style buildings
                    One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Hanov View Post
                      Sad but true.
                      One should not forget that the bombings rendered some 7 million homeless and that more millions (Vertriebene) were pouring in from the East. So building was a priority. Rebuilding in the old way was probably too expensive and time consuming. I actually saw fotos of Stuttgart in the 1930s it was really beautiful... Maybe they should stop wasting money for S21 and instead rebuild some of that old style buildings
                      S21 So much money for just what. I still have not gotten an answer for that but we are drifting off topic.
                      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                      Comment

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