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  • Nationalist Chinese Enters Korean War

    It is well documented that President Truman was worried when General MacArthur went to Taiwan at the start of the Korean conflict assuming that MacArthur was going to ask the Nationalist to send troops. What Truman was unaware of was that General MacArthur was there to tell the Nationalist that he did not want them involved. In June of 1950 Truman sent the US 7th Fleet to the Taiwan Straits to basically prevent hostilities between the Chinese Nationalist and the PRC. However, in Nov of 1950 when China entered the war what would the consequences of assisting the Nationalist in either attacking mainland China or even feinting an attack?
    Too Much To Do Too Little Time

  • #2
    IMO main thing Nationalist would do is to properly drag PRC into war, make sure that huge number of PRC troops are forced to stay near coasts and provide Allies air force bases which could be used to house bombers.
    From Devastation - Knights Twilight Warhammer 40,000 Quest
    Rear Admiral Sander Van der Zee, Commander of Dutch Far East Theatre
    "There is never enough firepower!"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Senorankka View Post
      IMO main thing Nationalist would do is to properly drag PRC into war, make sure that huge number of PRC troops are forced to stay near coasts and provide Allies air force bases which could be used to house bombers.
      The PRC were already in the war in Nov of 1950 (when I put forth the Nationalist Chinese enter the war (not at the start). I agree however that it would cause the PRC to counter the Nationalist. The US did not need any more bomber base, they were flying B29's from Okinawa and additional bombers from Japan along with other tactical aircraft also in Japan and Korea.
      Too Much To Do Too Little Time

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      • #4
        I meant that PRC joins properly properly, war comes to China and so on.

        Bomber bases, so that US have better reach to China and it forces PRC to distribute their AA capacity and Air force to counter the new threat.
        From Devastation - Knights Twilight Warhammer 40,000 Quest
        Rear Admiral Sander Van der Zee, Commander of Dutch Far East Theatre
        "There is never enough firepower!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Senorankka View Post
          I meant that PRC joins properly properly, war comes to China and so on.

          Bomber bases, so that US have better reach to China and it forces PRC to distribute their AA capacity and Air force to counter the new threat.
          Understand you now.
          Too Much To Do Too Little Time

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          • #6
            If the Nationalist Chinese send in 100,000 men the Red Chinese send in another 500,000. How would things have changed?

            Pruitt
            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

            by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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            • #7
              Nationalist China doesn't need to send huge numbers of men to Korea as their main mission would be to "Fleet in Being". Just staying in Taiwan holds huge amounts of PRC resources, that could be sent to Korea. If the PRC moves its resources away. Taiwan can freely land with US/UN support to southern coast and inflict huge losses to PRCs industry and resources.
              From Devastation - Knights Twilight Warhammer 40,000 Quest
              Rear Admiral Sander Van der Zee, Commander of Dutch Far East Theatre
              "There is never enough firepower!"

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually the People's Army did invade one of the offshore islands using fishing boats and other small craft. This invasion was destroyed, partially by a Light Armor unit (Stuart tanks) present. The Red Chinese had already moved troops away from the Taiwan Straits to Korea. The ethnic Koreans in the Red Army were there before joining the NKPA for the invasion of the South.

                Many of the Chinese troops sent to Korea were ex-warlord troops that had defected to the victorious Red Army before the end of the Civil War there.

                If you really want to get 'interesting' raise several 'volunteer' Japanese Infantry Divisions to go to Korea! Nobody else would scare the NKPA or Red Chinese like these guys!

                Pruitt
                Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                • #9
                  Correct, but if Nationalist China is in "Fleet in Being", those soldiers sent from Taiwan Strait could stay near the Strait. What kind of effect that would have in Korea as probable reinforcements doesn't arrive.
                  From Devastation - Knights Twilight Warhammer 40,000 Quest
                  Rear Admiral Sander Van der Zee, Commander of Dutch Far East Theatre
                  "There is never enough firepower!"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Red Chinese have millions of men in the People's Army. They have no problem with moving men to Korea and guarding the Straits. I doubt sincerely that Chiang Kai Shek had the wherewithal to invade the Mainland. The 7th Fleet was not there to help him invade, they were there to keep the Red Army away.

                    Despite the US Air Force's complete domination of the air, the Chinese were able to move over a million troops into North Korea over time. They could move more if they had wanted to.

                    Pruitt
                    Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                    Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                    by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                      The Red Chinese have millions of men in the People's Army. They have no problem with moving men to Korea and guarding the Straits. I doubt sincerely that Chiang Kai Shek had the wherewithal to invade the Mainland. The 7th Fleet was not there to help him invade, they were there to keep the Red Army away.

                      Despite the US Air Force's complete domination of the air, the Chinese were able to move over a million troops into North Korea over time. They could move more if they had wanted to.

                      Pruitt
                      The USAF didn't try to stop them though did they?
                      A wild liberal appears! Conservative uses logical reasoning and empirical evidence! It's super effective! Wild liberal faints.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
                        The USAF didn't try to stop them though did they?
                        Because MacArthur said they weren't there and if they were it would be a catastrophe for the Chinese
                        Too Much To Do Too Little Time

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
                          The USAF didn't try to stop them though did they?
                          The USAF "tried" and failed miserably. Their aircraft and tactics were suited to World War II and not against a 'power' that used foot power and could hide under a dirty white cloth while Jet aircraft flew overhead. As the Master Yoda once said: "TRY? There is no TRY. There is only DO!"

                          Pruitt
                          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                          • #14
                            The KMT wasn't a threat to mainland China. They were simply incapable of drawing enough Chinese troops away from Korea to make a shred of difference.

                            In fact, several small invasions were attempted during the Korean War. In order for the KMT to pose any sort of threat it needed to be able to threaten to gain enough support to create local uprisings. Not even close. Neither 'invasion' lasted long.

                            Turned out that the real talent of the KMT was flooding the world with opium.

                            In April 1951 the attempted reconquest of Yunnan began when the 2,000 KMT soldiers of the Yunnan Province Anti-Communist National Salvation Army based at Mong Mao crossed the border into China. Accompanied by CIA advisers and supplied by regular airdrops from unmarked C-47s, KMT troops moved northward in two columns, capturing Kengma without resistance. However, as they advanced north of Kengma, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) counterattacked. The KMT suffered huge casualties, and several of their CIA advisers were killed. (146) Li Mi and his Salvation Army fled back to Burma, after less than a week in China. Undeterred by this crushing defeat, however, the General dispatched his two thousandman contingent at Mong Yang into southern Yunnan; they too were quickly overwhelmed and driven back into Burma. (147)

                            Rather than abandoning this doomed adventure, the CIA redoubled its efforts. Late in 1951 the KMT reopened the old World War II landing strip at Mong Hsat so that it could handle the large two- and fourengine aircraft flying in directly from Taiwan or Bangkok. (148)In November Li Mi flew off to Taiwan for an extended vacation and returned three months later at the head of a CAT (Civil Air Transport, later Air America) airlift, which flew seven hundred regular KMT soldiers from Taiwan to Mong Hsat. (149)Burmese intelligence reported that the unmarked C-47s began a regular shuttle service, with two flights a week direct from Taiwan. A mysterious Bangkok-based American company named Sea Supply Corporation began forwarding enormous quantities of U.S. arms to Mong Hsat.(150) Burmese Military Intelligence observed that the KMT began sporting brand-new American M- 1 s, .50 caliber machine guns, bazookas, mortars, and antiaircraft artillery. (151)With these lavish supplies the KMT press-ganged eight thousand soldiers from the hardy local hill tribes and soon tripled their forces to twelve thousand men. (152)

                            While preparing for the Yunnan invasion, the KMT had concentrated their forces in a long, narrow strip of territory parallel to the China border. Since Yunnan's illicit opium production continued until about 1955, the KMT were in a position to monopolize almost all of the province's smuggled exports. The Burmese government reported that, "off and on these KMT guerrillas attacked petty traders plying across the border routes . . . . (153)

                            After a year-long buildup, Gen. Li Mi launched his final bid to reconquer Yunnan Province. In August 1952, 2,100 KMT troops from Mong Yang invaded China and penetrated about sixty miles before the Chinese army drove them back into Burma.(154) There would be no more invasions. While Gen. Li Mi and his American advisers had not really expected to overrun the vast stretches of Yunnan Province with an army of twelve thousand men, they had been confident that once the KMTset foot in China, the "enslaved masses" would rise up againstMao and flock to Chiang Kai-shek's banner. After three attempts had conspicuously failed to arouse the populace, Gen. Li Mi abandoned the idea of conquering China and resigned himself to holding the line in Burma. The KNIT stopped concentrating their forces in a few bases on the China border and troops spread out to occupy as much territory as possible. With the Burmese army still preoccupied with insurgency in other parts of Burma, the KMT soon became the only effective government in all the Shan States' territories between the Salween River and the China border (Kokang, Wa, and Kengtung states). These territories were also Burma's major opium-producing region, and the shift in KMT tactics allowed them to increase their control over the region's opium traffic.
                            http://www.akha.org/content/drugwar/mccoy/29.htm
                            Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                              The USAF "tried" and failed miserably. Their aircraft and tactics were suited to World War II and not against a 'power' that used foot power and could hide under a dirty white cloth while Jet aircraft flew overhead. As the Master Yoda once said: "TRY? There is no TRY. There is only DO!"

                              Pruitt
                              Another problem was that the B-29's were sitting ducks for MIG's. They could slash through the formation from below at 400kts, while other MIG's attacked from above. The B-29 daylight raids were basically called off. One also must remember that the MIG's ceiling was above any US fighter employed during the war.
                              Too Much To Do Too Little Time

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