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Catastrophe at Calais: 1943

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
    On some game boards I'd welcome a Axis player with a army group still in Tunisia in the July/August turn. Hell the Axis player can expend the supply points all he wants and capture Algeria too. It is all a stratigic dead end for the Axis in the context of 1943. A panzer army on the road to Oran is way out of position when the Allied armies are on the road to Paris...
    On the game table that would be true, especially if there are no concerns about the Pacific or political concerns over the Mediterranean. IMO the British would, at the very least, demand that Torch be completed. They have been fighting since 1940 to clear Africa and make the Mediterranean safe(r) for allied shipping. I would think that by 1943 their teeth are in too deep to do less than finish the bite.

    The air resources would likely still be able to drive back the LW and RA and then suppress Sicilian bases. So while the Axis would still have Sicily their ability to do more than harrass shipping would be minimized. The Mediterranean would definitely become secondary theatre.
    Last edited by The Purist; 24 Sep 13, 12:46.
    The Purist

    Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by The Purist View Post
      Hmmm,... I could try. Never done ity before. I would have to seek guidance from the gurus of the forum on the 'how'.

      So,... two threads. Thread one - the decisions and allied build up. Thread two - a plausible German reaction to the changes from the OTL
      Not quite, although we could do it that way. I started this thread as an 'aftermath' discussion and would prefer to keep it that way. The other thread would be a 'plans/oobs/execution' thread that would cover both sides.
      Signing out.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by The Purist View Post
        On the game table that would be true, especially if there are no concerns about the Pacific or political concerns over the Mediterranean. IMO the British would, at the very least, demand that Torch be completed. They have been fighting since 1940 to clear Africa and make the Mediterranean safe(r) for allied shipping. I would think that by 1943 their teeth are in too deep to less more than finish the bite.
        I can't envisage North Africa being left hanging. The Allies might display more urgency as they drive the Axis armies back through Tunisia and casualties on both sides might vary considerably from the OTL if they do. But I'd rather we didn't try and factor that in to our little intellectual exercise as it would complicate matters unnecessarily.
        Signing out.

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        • #64
          Ok then. You set up the threads as you like and the mob will ad their inputs from there.

          I agree about Africa, it would need finisihing.
          The Purist

          Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by The Purist View Post
            Ok then. You set up the threads as you like and the mob will ad their inputs from there.

            I agree about Africa, it would need finisihing.
            I opened the thread a day or so back.

            http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=140264
            Signing out.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
              Especially for Roddoss.

              The POD - American command wins the argument over what Allied strategy should be in 1943 thus no 'Husky' or 'Avalanche'. Instead we get 'Roundup' and it fails. So the question is how bad would it be and what difference might it make to the war's progress?

              Before anyone weighs in, yes I'm aware that 'Roundup' might well have succeeded. But it was a greater risk than 'Overlord' and more likely to fail.
              Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
              Go with whatever you want, but if you genuinely want to develop that idea a new thread dedicated to it will be in order because it will be swamped here.
              Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
              Your posts will probably get deleted if you choose to adopt such a contrary position. I thought you were out anyway



              An observation.

              1, The OP was directed towards me, unless you were referring to another Roddoss72?

              2, Why should i go with another thread as this seems to be the right place for it?

              3, Threats of having my posts "probably" deleted isn't good form, what are you scared of?

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              • #67
                I have searched through the entire list of Millitary Operations in WW2 and can not find any "Operation Coral" pertaining to either the Western Front from 1942 onwards.

                Also the only Operation Corral i get get from Google is an operation by law enforcers of a Child Paedophile internet ring.

                Can anyone direct me to Operation Coral?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                  An observation.

                  1, The OP was directed towards me, unless you were referring to another Roddoss72?

                  2, Why should i go with another thread as this seems to be the right place for it?

                  3, Threats of having my posts "probably" deleted isn't good form, what are you scared of?
                  That's three observations.

                  1) The OP was directed at a topic, you were invited specifically to join in.

                  2) Because this thread has a specific purpose, namely the discussion of the result of a failed landing in Northern France in 1943. There is an open thread with a focus on developing a particular variant on an Allied landing, one that is more realistic than the abandoned 'Roundup'.

                  3) How can I threaten when I don't have the power to execute? But I've laid out the parameters for discussion and will request that anything that deviates too far be moved or removed. I'm offering advice, you don't have to take it.
                  Signing out.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                    I have searched through the entire list of Millitary Operations in WW2 and can not find any "Operation Coral" pertaining to either the Western Front from 1942 onwards.

                    Also the only Operation Corral i get get from Google is an operation by law enforcers of a Child Paedophile internet ring.

                    Can anyone direct me to Operation Coral?
                    Quit playing the fool! You were pedantic enough to insist that 'Roundup' be followed to the letter or no invasion at all be discussed. This seems to be the product of your ongoing spat with The Purist as it's connected with your ire over mentions of 'Husky'. I coined the term as a play on words, as a bit of humour and to keep the ATL differentiated from the OTL we're all familiar with. In the OTL 'Roundup' was dismissed as unrealistic, there were not enough troops, not enough ships and not enough aircraft available. That's the bottom line and any attempt to discuss it stops right there.
                    Signing out.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Full Monty View Post
                      Quit playing the fool! You were pedantic enough to insist that 'Roundup' be followed to the letter or no invasion at all be discussed. This seems to be the product of your ongoing spat with The Purist as it's connected with your ire over mentions of 'Husky'. I coined the term as a play on words, as a bit of humour and to keep the ATL differentiated from the OTL we're all familiar with. In the OTL 'Roundup' was dismissed as unrealistic, there were not enough troops, not enough ships and not enough aircraft available. That's the bottom line and any attempt to discuss it stops right there.
                      Post reported as offensive.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
                        Post reported as offensive.
                        Lol! Smart thing to do would be to report it and not broadcast it to the world.
                        Signing out.

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                        • #72
                          Indeed. In any case the "corral" term is clearly mentioned in a post as a substitute code name for "roundup".

                          Its a synonym, Roddoss.
                          The Purist

                          Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                            Indeed. In any case the "corral" term is clearly mentioned in a post as a substitute code name for "roundup".

                            Its a synonym, Roddoss.
                            Given myself a face palm, should have made the conection, just one of those days i guess.

                            Thanks for the clarrification

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