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  • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    This from the people that were going to smash Spain?

    You are using Turkish units to mask a British-lead (Wellington) and transported (with Russian help!!!) invasion of a nation that had those same French troops in it since before there was any fighting between Turkey and Spain.
    What were the French supposed to do, stand around and starve while Spain collapsed?

    C'mon, its a week till the end of the turn, then we can have some real action.
    actually with this broken mechanic the game is now uplayable if you oppose france they just loan their army

    and you should note you are at war with both spain and Turkey all of which is your own doing. Also did I not offer you control of Turkey

    oh it not a mask for an English invasion I am not even playing England anymore. they are just in caretaker mode England wins if no one wins the game. hence I have to nothing

    and ex you should consider the fact that how this plays in the oeverall game ie france can loan it army to counties it has enforced peace with and still attack them.

    What is the point of surrendering to anyone when your former enemy army can be loaned to the guy your still at war with. Ie if you surrendered to Turkey I could loan the troops to England and keep beating on you. that is just wrong

    btw notice I am purposely avoiding using neutral ships as blockading ship\\

    btw sorry to disappoint there will be no action next turn. I see no point in continuing the war with France and Spain.
    Last edited by craven; 09 Jul 15, 17:31.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ulrih View Post
      Why would France do so? Making a war is not only loosing VP`s but also gaining provinces, income etc. in case of successful campaign. And by the way loaned troops could win battles and gain VP`s but also could loose and in result have reduction of VP`s. And after all others could declare war on France at any time that would resolve loaned troops problem as you described it, wouldn`t it?
      simple fighting france is pointless at this point once so surrendering is the only tactic which is viable and surviving. and having any chance of winning.

      so the only way France will get vps is loaning out troops which means france will be able to chose who wins what wars rather than them being fought by individual countries.

      btw I been waiting for you to declare war on Turkey so I could surrender to France. I was not planning on fighting France for the rest of the game just Austria Spain and Prussia

      your just to big to fight
      Last edited by craven; 09 Jul 15, 17:38.

      Comment


      • Loaned corps have disadvantages

        There are benefits to Brits/Turks, Prussian/Austria or French/Spanish loaning corps to ech other but there are some serious disadvantages as well.

        The main advantage being it allows two allied armies/navies to move at the same time.

        Disadvantages -

        For example:

        - Corps on loan cannot receive reinforcements via the host nations depots. This means that corps will dwindle in strength the longer they are on loan and away from their own supply chains.
        - The loaning power must either lay its own supply line or send corps back to be rebuilt, or assign a corps to shuttle troops from supply points to the corps up front and then this corps must tramp back to pick up more troops.
        - The above means one or more corps is removed from the order of battle.
        - Corps on loaned cannot deploy garrisons in cities or onto depots. Only the host nation does.

        From the historical perspective the game would treat the Battle of Leipzig as the French moving then the Coalition Powers all moving together, led either by the Austrians or Prussians deploying the supply line.

        Likewise, Austerlitz in 1805 would see a French move followed by a paired Russian/Austrian move supplied by an Austrian depot in either Olmutz or Krakow.
        The Purist

        Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by craven View Post
          actually with this broken mechanic the game is now uplayable if you oppose france they just loan their army
          It's certainly not unplayable, it's even quite enjoyable.

          I do agree the "loan mechanics" as well as the "enforced peace after surrender" are open invites to exploitation for experienced gamers.

          I pointed out as much in a post a year ago, asked from opinions from players here and suggested to developers they'd change it in future versions.

          It received very little response iirc.

          It's a bit weak to bring up the point only now that it's working to your disadvantage.

          The rules are the same for everyone, and its hardly doable to change them in mid-game.

          Originally posted by The Purist View Post
          From the historical perspective the game would treat the Battle of Leipzig as the French moving then the Coalition Powers all moving together, led either by the Austrians or Prussians deploying the supply line.

          Likewise, Austerlitz in 1805 would see a French move followed by a paired Russian/Austrian move supplied by an Austrian depot in either Olmutz or Krakow.
          So it seems, yes,

          Something like the hundred days however would be impossible, since napoleon would still be under "enforced peace" after his surrender in 1814
          Last edited by Snowygerry; 10 Jul 15, 02:32.
          High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
          Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

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          • The enforced peace rule is there to prevent 'shooting cripples'. Otherwise all one would need to run up a high VP total early is attack and defeat a smaller power, force them to sue for peace, collect VPs, leave the country, declare war again, force them to sue for peace, collect VPs, leave the country, declare war - rinse and repeat.

            It prevents gamey play by those who would exploit the system for gaining VP. With 18 month enforced peace after forcing a surrender (as opposed to an informal peace). It gives the defeated a chance to re-built and seek support from other powers via diplomacy.
            The Purist

            Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

            Comment


            • Diplomacy time

              Jun 1807

              I'm away until Sunday evening. Everyone take a deep breath and relax for a few days.
              The Purist

              Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                It's certainly not unplayable, it's even quite enjoyable.

                I do agree the "loan mechanics" as well as the "enforced peace after surrender" are open invites to exploitation for experienced gamers.

                I pointed out as much in a post a year ago, asked from opinions from players here and suggested to developers they'd change it in future versions.

                It received very little response iirc.

                It's a bit weak to bring up the point only now that it's working to your disadvantage.

                The rules are the same for everyone, and its hardly doable to change them in mid-game.



                So it seems, yes,

                Something like the hundred days however would be impossible, since napoleon would still be under "enforced peace" after his surrender in 1814
                well since I have specifically not used the rule to my advantage ie why are the Russian fleets not helping blockade France I do think I get to point out the flaw in the system. btw I thought the consensus was the game would not allow that or purist was going to test it for us

                Hell exploting that flaw I could of saved twenty ships
                Last edited by craven; 10 Jul 15, 13:54.

                Comment


                • When the going got tough for me I said "NUTS" and came up with a new strategy.

                  oh well
                  I am definitely looking forward to the rest of the game, and if I am not here to help with it, it is due to circumstances beyond my control.
                  Last edited by The Exorcist; 10 Jul 15, 19:38.
                  "Why is the Rum gone?"

                  -Captain Jack

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                    When the going got tough for me I said "NUTS" and came up with a new strategy.

                    oh well
                    I am definitely looking forward to the rest of the game, and if I am not here to help with it, it is due to circumstances beyond my control.

                    well hopefully that wont happen to you ex

                    me surrendering has been my plan for the last year France is to big to fight and combined with you just pointless

                    only hope was to surrender to France and then keep poinding on you but that is not possible because France just loans you his army after I surrender to him

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by craven View Post
                      well since I have specifically not used the rule to my advantage ie why are the Russian fleets not helping blockade France I do think I get to point out the flaw in the system. btw I thought the consensus was the game would not allow that or purist was going to test it for us

                      Hell exploting that flaw I could of saved twenty ships
                      IF the Russians are willing to sign over their fleet to you, a fairly big if

                      One of the drawbacks of the loaning system is that you have no real way of getting your troops back unless the receiving party gives them back, if I understood it correctly.

                      That should keep most players from giving their entire army away.

                      Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                      The enforced peace rule is there to prevent 'shooting cripples'. Otherwise all one would need to run up a high VP total early is attack and defeat a smaller power, force them to sue for peace, collect VPs, leave the country, declare war again, force them to sue for peace, collect VPs, leave the country, declare war - rinse and repeat.

                      It prevents gamey play by those who would exploit the system for gaining VP. With 18 month enforced peace after forcing a surrender (as opposed to an informal peace). It gives the defeated a chance to re-built and seek support from other powers via diplomacy.
                      I understand the reasoning behind it, yes - but I am of the opinion the solution is worse than the problem.

                      Doesn't matter for this game though, the rules are set (even though the full consequences have not yet been realized imho) and we'll see it through
                      High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.
                      Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Co.

                      Comment


                      • Loaned troops return to the home power every diplomatic phase and can then be loaned again. This allows corps to absorb reinforcements if on/next to a supply source or in the same hex as a corps that is shuttling replacements forward.

                        As for France being too big to fight, that is not really true. This is Napoleonic Europe and France is the wealthiest state with the most potent land forces over all but it is not unbeatable. Defeating France (if that is an objective) does take coalition building, however, it cerrtainly can be done.

                        Players must also look at the individual goals for their power's victory. Right now the leaders are Britain, Russia and Austria as the top three. France is in the middle with poor Prussia pulling up the rear.
                        The Purist

                        Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                          One of the drawbacks of the loaning system is that you have no real way of getting your troops back unless the receiving party gives them back, if I understood it correctly.

                          That should keep most players from giving their entire army away.

                          Not really, you should loan troops every reinforcement`s turn otherwise they are returning automatically under your command.

                          Comment


                          • Lots of diplomatic issues being discussed.

                            Stay tuned.
                            The Purist

                            Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                              As for France being too big to fight, that is not really true. This is Napoleonic Europe and France is the wealthiest state with the most potent land forces over all but it is not unbeatable. Defeating France (if that is an objective) does take coalition building, however, it certainly can be done.
                              It is impossible to build a coalition when half of the needed countries are directly going against their own self interest by declaring war on the other half.
                              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedy. -- Ernest Benn

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                                Lots of diplomatic issues being discussed.

                                Stay tuned.


                                unless Russia is involved it planning not diplomacy and hence should of been done weeks ago

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