Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Italian Subs in op Drumbeat

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Made it back? It needs to be confirmed but IIRC post war examination of German records show the USN failed to sink any German subs involved in op Drumbeat until April. Note that these were primarily the Type IX, which were designed back circa 1930 & completed by 1935. They were large & considered slow diving & slow manuvering. The Cagni class boats, completed in 1941 were the four subs originally suggested in the OP. I wonder what the actual performance differences between them & the Type IX were?

    Comment


    • #17
      The KM had 12 type IX's. However, 6 of them were earmarked for an operation off Gibraltar. We need to look up name/purpose and whether the Italian boats were involved. That left 6 type IX's for Drumbeat. One was temporarily unfit sea, so the operation went ahead with 5 boats.

      The effects of the initial Drumbeat boats and follow on waves of U-boats to shipping on the US east and gulf coasts and in the Caribbean was dramatic. In the first 6 months of 1942, 397 ships totaling over 2 million tons of shipping went down. The Germans lost just 7 U-boats in arguably the single greatest defeat in the history of the USN.
      Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Carl Schwamberg View Post
        Made it back?
        I was thinking more of the general fragility of Italian boats, the ineptitude of their skippers and their inability to coordinate with the KM.

        Originally posted by Roadkiller View Post
        The effects of the initial Drumbeat boats and follow on waves of U-boats to shipping on the US east and gulf coasts and in the Caribbean was dramatic. In the first 6 months of 1942, 397 ships totaling over 2 million tons of shipping went down. The Germans lost just 7 U-boats in arguably the single greatest defeat in the history of the USN.
        No argument about it. Taken as a whole, it was much worse than Pearl Harbor... and yet somehow or other, Adm King kept his job.
        Crazy, eh?
        "Why is the Rum gone?"

        -Captain Jack

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
          ... and yet somehow or other, Adm King kept his job.
          Crazy, eh?
          Agreed! Yet every time I mention it, within moments someone will cough up that King was an Anglophobe and therefore loathe to take the advice of the RN to start a convoy system, as if this were a valid excuse
          Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
            I was thinking more of the general fragility of Italian boats, the ineptitude of their skippers and their inability to coordinate with the KM.


            No argument about it. Taken as a whole, it was much worse than Pearl Harbor... and yet somehow or other, Adm King kept his job.
            Crazy, eh?
            The USN problems that created the conditions for the sucess of Drumbeat went far beyond Adm King. Note that King did not take the CoS job until January 1942, when Op DB was starting. Aside from a severe shortage of suitable escorts the ships commanders and fleet staffs lacked training for ASW. That had a lot to do with the huge mobilization & expansion of the previous 20 months. Also King was not the only Anglophobe in the USN several of his predecessors wasted some the few and small opportunities they had to train in ASW to British experience because they could not accept that Brit. experience.

            Once King grasped the situation he did push effective remedial action through. The decline in cargo ships sunk in the US zone of responsibility declined as fast as it rose & from mid 1942 the proportion of submarines not returning from patrol went up dramatically from a average of ten per quarter to between 30-40 per quarter. There were a lot of reasons for that, but the change in USN tactics/doctrines had a significant contribution.

            Donetizs eventual decision to move operations back to the mid Atlantic had everything to do with the unacceptable losses of his submarines in US waters from mid 1942.

            Hughes & Costellos 'The Battle of the Atlantic' has detailed quarterly information on numbers and locations of German subs lost during the war.

            Comment

            Latest Topics

            Collapse

            Working...
            X