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Heavy cruisers versus a battleship

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  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Ok, so doing some armor and shell analysis on three common BB types of the the WWII era (one is outdated, but included), and noting the penetration at various ranges for USN, RN, and IJN 8" cruiser guns. Armor sourcing from Wiki (for speed), Weapon sourcing from Navweaps.com.

    IJN Kongo:
    Deck - 58mm/76mm(engines)/101mm(ammo storage)
    Belt - 200-280mm
    Turret Face - 230mm
    Barbette - 254mm
    Superstructure - ??

    USS South Dakota:
    Deck - 140mm-155mm
    Belt - 310mm
    Turret Face - 457mm
    Barbette - 287mm-439mm
    Conning Tower - 406mm

    HMS King George V (1941):
    Deck - 136mm Max
    Belt - M374mm, L137mm
    Turret Face - 324mm
    Barbette - 324mm
    Superstructure - ??

    ----------------------

    Guns:

    Japanese 20cm/50 3rd year no 2 (most advanced 8" gun of WWII for Japan):
    10,940yds - 190mm Side
    19,690yds - 120mm Side
    32,150yds - 74mm Side
    Note that once range exceeds 16,000yds, the angle of fall will exceed 15deg, making deck hits likely.

    British 8"/50 Mark VIII:
    No Data on Penetration. I would place this gun somewhere between the Japanese and American guns for penetration.

    USA 8"/55 Mark 12 & 15:
    10,800yds: 254mm
    15,400yds: 203mm
    18,400yds: 51mm Deck
    24,400yds: 127mm
    27,600yds: 102mm Deck
    Last edited by TacCovert4; 02 Jan 13, 19:19.

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  • tcox
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    Wrong
    Pensacola class had theirs removed.
    Looking in Wiki; Northampton class cruisers, USA" does not exist.
    Janes
    agrees.
    From: Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, Vol. V, p. 111-12.

    Northampton

    (CL-26: dp. 9,050; l. 600' 3"; b. 66' 1" dr. 16' 4"; s. 32.5 k.; cpl. 621; a. 9 8", 4 5", 8 .50 cal. mg., 6 21" tt.; cl. Northampton)

    Northampton (CL-26) was laid down 12 April 1928 by Bethlehem Steel Corp., Quincy, Mass., launched 5 September 1929, sponsored by Mrs. Calvin Coolidge; and commissioned 17 May 1930, Captain Walter N. Vernou in command.


    As to cruisers vs battleships the night action on November 12-13, 1942 the Japanese fleet consisted of the battleships Hiei and Kirishima , cruiser Nagara and 11 destroyers. The ships were going to bombard Henderson field. They were intercepted by 2 heavy cruisers, 1 light cruiser, 2 anti-aircraft cruisers and 8 destroyers. The IMS Hiei suffered severe damage and was also hit by torpedo planes the next day and later scuttled.

    The one that wasn't was at Leyte Gulf where 4 cruisers and 9 destroyers were sent to finish off the remnants of Ozawa's northern force. Ozawa when he learned of the size of the American force ordered the battleships Ise and Hyuga to engage the Americans but no contacct was made.

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  • TacCovert4
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    Wrong
    Pensacola class had theirs removed.
    Looking in Wiki; Northampton class cruisers, USA" does not exist.
    Janes
    agrees.
    Navweaps notes the weapon for the Northampton Class. They note that it started with CA-26. Checked Wiki, and the USS Northampton is noted as the lead ship of the Northampton Class....and is CA-26.

    Leave a comment:


  • IDonT4
    replied
    Admiral Mikawa with 4 Heavy cruisers would probably wreck an unescorted battleship. Though losing one or two ships.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
    Wrong.

    USN some heavy cruisers had torpedo tubes. Pensacola Class and the Northampton Class had torpedo tubes. Later classes did not. All RN cruisers had tubes except for a couple in the London Class. All the heavy's of the Free French navy had tubes. All CA's of the IJN had tubes.
    Wrong
    Pensacola class had theirs removed.
    Looking in Wiki; Northampton class cruisers, USA" does not exist.
    Janes
    agrees.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dashy
    replied
    Allied cruisers with Radar vs an axis BB without? at night? (something their superior speed would enable them to set up)

    they can get a mission kill at the very least.

    and if they're British cruisers they'll probably just scuttle themselves

    Leave a comment:


  • Half Pint John
    replied
    Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
    In a night battle, yes, they could.
    However, US cruisers are handicapped in that they don't have torpedoes.
    Even so, look what happened to the Hiei.

    Most cruisers were faster than most BBs, but just a few hits from a BB would knock most any CA out of the fight. And CAs are not fast enough to dodge fire from the big guns.
    Wrong.

    USN some heavy cruisers had torpedo tubes. Pensacola Class and the Northampton Class had torpedo tubes. Later classes did not. All RN cruisers had tubes except for a couple in the London Class. All the heavy's of the Free French navy had tubes. All CA's of the IJN had tubes.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Exorcist
    replied
    In a night battle, yes, they could.
    However, US cruisers are handicapped in that they don't have torpedoes.
    Even so, look what happened to the Hiei.

    Most cruisers were faster than most BBs, but just a few hits from a BB would knock most any CA out of the fight. And CAs are not fast enough to dodge fire from the big guns.

    Leave a comment:


  • llkinak
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    From the Yamato thread:



    This poses an interesting question: What if you had 3 or 4 heavy 8" cruisers versus a single battleship. Could those cruisers effectively defeat the battleship in an engagement?

    My personal view right off is that they couldn't. While the cruisers could inflict some damage, and they might get lucky hits on critical systems like the fire control towers on the whole they couldn't take down the battleship. At the same time, a single well placed salvo from a battleship scoring 2 or more hits would be near crippling to most cruisers. Again, it comes down in part to who hits where and who hits first but on the whole I don't see the cruisers winning.
    Would their torpedos help the cruisers out? By that I mean, are they a legit threat to the battleship? (Not a navy guy, obviously)

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    started a topic Heavy cruisers versus a battleship

    Heavy cruisers versus a battleship

    From the Yamato thread:

    Originally posted by At ease View Post
    I'm well aware of what class of ship Graf Spee was.

    My point of my 2 previous posts in this thread, in rebuttal to TAG's earlier post, is that 8" shells are more than capable of inflicting grave damage to much heavier opponents.

    These shells might not sink a much better protected opponent, but armour cannot be everywhere and therefore much damage can be inflicted to the extent that, as was seen at the River Plate action and in Bismark's last, they can be fundamental in rendering an opponent helpless.
    This poses an interesting question: What if you had 3 or 4 heavy 8" cruisers versus a single battleship. Could those cruisers effectively defeat the battleship in an engagement?

    My personal view right off is that they couldn't. While the cruisers could inflict some damage, and they might get lucky hits on critical systems like the fire control towers on the whole they couldn't take down the battleship. At the same time, a single well placed salvo from a battleship scoring 2 or more hits would be near crippling to most cruisers. Again, it comes down in part to who hits where and who hits first but on the whole I don't see the cruisers winning.

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