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The Yamato Class Battleships

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  • The Yamato Class Battleships

    These ship was designed to take out multiple battleships and their big guns that were protected by the heaviest armor. Assuming an optical fire control scenario, can they take on any two battleships built ?

    Basically, the scenario I'm talking about are the following (optical fire control scenario only):

    1 Yamato vs Tirpitz and Bismarck
    1 Yamato vs Rodney and Nelson
    1 Yamato vs North Carolina and Washington
    1 Yamato vs 2 Jean Bert
    1 Yamato vs KGV and Prince of Wales
    1 Yamato vs any 2 South Dakota Class
    1 Yamato vs any 2 Iowa class

  • #2
    The Yamato mite win but then those planes come and its over

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    • #3
      1 Yamato vs any 2 South Dakota Class
      1 Yamato vs any 2 Iowa class

      Yamato is sunk. Others are damaged or heavely damaged but not sunk
      "Ask not what your country can do for you"

      Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

      you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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      • #4
        I'm not really a navy guy, but it seems like most anything is possible depending on the luck/skill equation. For example, Bismark should not have done so well against Hood and Prince of Wales, she wasn't really a better ship than either of them, but she did. That said, I think the 16 inch gun American ships stand a better chance since they had some fairly heavy shells which might more easily damage a Yamato class. Still, I would not want to be on any of the ships involved.

        My guess in the Jean Bart class would have the least chance of success, followed by KGV and POW due to their 14 inch guns, followed by the 15 inch gun ships, and finally the 16 inch class vessles. However from KGV/POW on up I think the contest could basically go either way.

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        • #5
          The US battleships could have done like the RN did vs the Graf Spee, split up to divide the fire up. That way, two lesser ships can outfight one superior ship. One of the Yamato's turrets would have to fire using the secondary director, making it less accurate. The US ship on that side would be pulverizing the Yamato.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by johns624 View Post
            The US battleships could have done like the RN did vs the Graf Spee, split up to divide the fire up. That way, two lesser ships can outfight one superior ship. One of the Yamato's turrets would have to fire using the secondary director, making it less accurate. The US ship on that side would be pulverizing the Yamato.
            That is certainly a very good tactic, but isn't the line ahead formation for battleship deployment hardwired to battleship captains and admirals of this era? It simplifies targetting and concentrates firepower. All military fights the way it trains and I can't see any admiral incharge of a battleship division will fight differently unless prior experience prove otherwise.

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            • #7
              It depends...
              Line ahead might work if you're even in strength or stronger, but when the enemy is stronger than either of your units, it's time to improvise and think outside the box. Also, it's a lot easier controlling two units than a whole battlefleet, especially with radios.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                These ship was designed to take out multiple battleships and their big guns that were protected by the heaviest armor. Assuming an optical fire control scenario, can they take on any two battleships built ?

                Basically, the scenario I'm talking about are the following (optical fire control scenario only):

                1 Yamato vs Tirpitz and Bismarck
                1 Yamato vs Rodney and Nelson
                1 Yamato vs North Carolina and Washington
                1 Yamato vs 2 Jean Bert
                1 Yamato vs KGV and Prince of Wales
                1 Yamato vs any 2 South Dakota Class
                1 Yamato vs any 2 Iowa class
                Hi

                Any and all possibilities are open in these scenario's, because as we know they just don't exist in a vacuum devoid of other elements that are present in a naval engagement.

                Norman Friedman's tome Naval Firepower (Battleship guns and Gunnery in the Dreadnought era) is the bible on these matters and must for anyone seriously interested in naval gunnery.

                Regards
                "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                • #9
                  Yamato

                  There are Youtube videos of wargame videos of the Yamato taking on the Nelson and Rodney; Yamato is victorious with slight damage.

                  vs. 2 South Dakota class, Yamato wins, but is heavily damaged; both SDs are sunk.

                  That's all that I watched.
                  Kevin Kenneally
                  Masters from a school of "hard knocks"
                  Member of a Ph.D. Society (Post hole. Digger)

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                  • #10
                    Yamato's weren't that great of a battleship class. They were huge gas guzzlers that spent most of their time anchored in Truk Lagoon for that reason. Her crew referred to her as "Hotel Yamato." They had a glass jaw in regards to their armor in a number of places both above and below the waterline that was only found out after being hit by a single submarine launched torpedo or aerial bomb. Iowa's had over a 7 knot speed advantage over the Yamato's. They had better radar, fire direction control and could fire faster and more accurately. WWII Naval Battle history tells us that whichever warship made the first major direct hit was usually the victor.
                    "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                      It depends...
                      Line ahead might work if you're even in strength or stronger, but when the enemy is stronger than either of your units, it's time to improvise and think outside the box. Also, it's a lot easier controlling two units than a whole battlefleet, especially with radios.
                      I agree with you, however, navy in particular and the military in general are conservative and generally don't "think out side the box" unless they have to. If it were that easy, then the USN would have drop the line ahead formation earlier in the Guadalcanal campaign.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
                        Yamato's weren't that great of a battleship class. They were huge gas guzzlers that spent most of their time anchored in Truk Lagoon for that reason. Her crew referred to her as "Hotel Yamato." They had a glass jaw in regards to their armor in a number of places both above and below the waterline that was only found out after being hit by a single submarine launched torpedo or aerial bomb. Iowa's had over a 7 knot speed advantage over the Yamato's. They had better radar, fire direction control and could fire faster and more accurately. WWII Naval Battle history tells us that whichever warship made the first major direct hit was usually the victor.
                        1.) The Musashi never had the armor weakness that the Yamato had. If she had survive longer, a future refit would have fixed that.

                        2.) While I agree with you that the USN fire control would give the Iowas and South Dakota's the first hit advantage, it really isn't the fault of the Yamato's design. Though politically imposible, the Iowa's radar fire control could be easily installed on the Yamato with minimal ship alteration. While the Iowa could never put in enough armor equal the protection of the Yamatos nor her could her hull take the an 18 inch turret.

                        The main reason why I stipulate optical fire control only is to drill down on the "traditional" strengths of the battleships (armor, guns, and mobility).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IDonT4 View Post
                          1.) The Musashi never had the armor weakness that the Yamato had. If she had survive longer, a future refit would have fixed that.

                          2.) While I agree with you that the USN fire control would give the Iowas and South Dakota's the first hit advantage, it really isn't the fault of the Yamato's design. Though politically imposible, the Iowa's radar fire control could be easily installed on the Yamato with minimal ship alteration. While the Iowa could never put in enough armor equal the protection of the Yamatos nor her could her hull take the an 18 inch turret.

                          The main reason why I stipulate optical fire control only is to drill down on the "traditional" strengths of the battleships (armor, guns, and mobility).
                          The Iowa's didn't need larger guns, nor' more armor. They had a considerable speed advantage and could pick when and where they fired their main gun armament.
                          "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                          • #14
                            The Iowa's 16 inch-50 caliber guns were very close to the same armor penetration and bursting capabilities as the Yamato's. I wouldn't want to live on such a razor's edge difference.
                            "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post
                              1 Yamato vs any 2 South Dakota Class
                              1 Yamato vs any 2 Iowa class

                              Yamato is sunk. Others are damaged or heavely damaged but not sunk
                              While the super heavy AP shell of the Iowas and the South Dakota could approach the penetrating power of the Yamatos 18 inch AP shells, the Iowas and South Dakotas are simply not armored enough to resist the 18 inch shells. The Yamato on the other hand has an immunity zone against an 18 inch shell at 17,700 yards. While nothing is certain, a Yamato hit on any of the Iowas and SD's have a higher probability of doing damage, while a 16 inch shell have a lower probability of doing damage.

                              What you got here is basically a race against time. The Iowa/SD has got to close the range to under 17,700 yards to have a greater probability of doing damage to Yamato. At the same time, the Yamato is trying to hit the Iowa/SD ships. The main advantage of the US ships is that at least one ship can fire with impunity while the Yamato engages the other. If the Yamato can get a HMS Hood type kill or disable some of the guns of one of the ships, then she stood a good chance. IMO, this is more probable.

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