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  • Matilda 1

    Any thoughts on a BEF fielding an armoured div equiped with standard Matilda 1 and an assault gun version armed with 2pdrs or light howitzer,three seperate types,in 1940.What if.
    Wack tac mac hey.
    Regards.
    Grishnak.

  • #2
    Originally posted by grishnak View Post
    Any thoughts on a BEF fielding an armoured div equiped with standard Matilda 1 and an assault gun version armed with 2pdrs or light howitzer,three seperate types,in 1940.What if.

    Matilda 1 could not carry more than a mg. It consisted of a driver and a commander/gunner/loader/radioman/signaller etc, ie 2 crew.

    The Matilda 2 was a very decent tank, and one of the few to serve the whole war successfully.
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    • #3
      Didnt make myself clear,I was positing a matilda1 version as a miniture Churchill 3 inch gun carrier type of vehicle,a non existant but posible type.What if?
      Wack tac mac hey.
      Regards.
      Grishnak.

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      • #4
        It sounds like something the British would do. Build a horrible tank, issue it to their troops, tell them to get on with it, and then be surprised when the unit gets shot to pieces.....

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        • #5
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          It sounds like something the British would do. Build a horrible tank, issue it to their troops, tell them to get on with it, and then be surprised when the unit gets shot to pieces.....


          Really, the Matilda 1 was a crazy tank. They wanted something cheap, I think it was supposed to be under 6,000 Pounds Sterling per tank.
          What they ended up with was just about the most expensive way to get one machine-gun to war ever devised.

          Neither 1 or model 2 was suitable for conversion to assault gun. There is a pic of a German captive tank with a 50mm on a Matilda 2... poor thing looks so over loaded that it might just topple over.

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          • #6
            Oh, I dunno. Remove the turret from a Matilda I, build a three sided gun shield and drop a 57mm AT gun in there and you have a little brother to 'Archer'. A bit slow (too slow, actually) but if the Germans could make a JgPz I the British could make the "Slinger". The weight saved might have increased the top speed a touch.
            The Purist

            Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by The Purist View Post
              Oh, I dunno. Remove the turret from a Matilda I, build a three sided gun shield and drop a 57mm AT gun in there and you have a little brother to 'Archer'. A bit slow (too slow, actually) but if the Germans could make a JgPz I the British could make the "Slinger". The weight saved might have increased the top speed a touch.
              If the PzKpfw I could do it, Matilda 1 could do it.

              Anyway, this belongs in a different ballpark.
              "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
              Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                It sounds like something the British would do. Build a horrible tank, issue it to their troops, tell them to get on with it, and then be surprised when the unit gets shot to pieces.....
                To be fair, it was difficult to shoot a Matilda I to pieces - it was easier to wait for it to break down.
                Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by panther3485 View Post
                  If the PzKpfw I could do it, Matilda 1 could do it.
                  It gets better. If you look at weight, height and width, the Matilda II could have been modified into a StuG-like AG/TD by replacing the upper superstructure and turret with a fighting compartment and adding a 6 pdr. A 17pdr could be adopted if the crew was arranged in a similar manner as the JgPz 38(t) (in a row).

                  Thankfully Britain did not need to resort to such desperate "use -whatever- you have" tactics and could make use of useful standarised kit (A15, Valentine, A22, M3 Medium, M4 medium in succession). For a TD they were also better off with turreted models such as Wolverine and Achilles.
                  The Purist

                  Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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                  • #10
                    You could modify the main turret and make it bigger somehow?

                    Then put in the 40mm Bofor gun as an anti-tank platform.

                    or

                    Move the engine forward and put a medium artillery gun and have it as a self propelled artillery platform.

                    Then again the chassis does look like it would lend itself well as a self propelled anti aircraft battery with single, twin or quad mounted 20mm cannon protecting airfields.

                    Options are open for the design.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by the ace View Post
                      To be fair, it was difficult to shoot a Matilda I to pieces - it was easier to wait for it to break down.
                      True, or the crew to freeze to death. I hear that was a bit of a problem in France too....

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by the ace View Post
                        To be fair, it was difficult to shoot a Matilda I to pieces - it was easier to wait for it to break down.
                        I read a great account of a British tank platoon leader who managed to replace his Matilda 1's 30 caliber maingun with a 50 caliber machine gun and managed to get through much of the fighting retreat back to Dunkirk, even though being hit numerous times by German anti tank fire.
                        "Profanity is but a linguistic crutch for illiterate motherbleepers"

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Purist View Post
                          It gets better. If you look at weight, height and width, the Matilda II could have been modified into a StuG-like AG/TD by replacing the upper superstructure and turret with a fighting compartment and adding a 6 pdr. A 17pdr could be adopted if the crew was arranged in a similar manner as the JgPz 38(t) (in a row).

                          Thankfully Britain did not need to resort to such desperate "use -whatever- you have" tactics and could make use of useful standarised kit (A15, Valentine, A22, M3 Medium, M4 medium in succession). For a TD they were also better off with turreted models such as Wolverine and Achilles.
                          Yup. All true.
                          "Chatfield, there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!"
                          Vice Admiral Beatty to Flag Captain Chatfield; Battle of Jutland, 31 May - 1 June, 1916.

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                          • #14
                            The British did have some experience with making an Infantry tank a SPG.
                            http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/G...elledGuns.html

                            The Churchill variant was not needed, but the Valatine SPG, the Archer, was pretty good in its role.



                            How to Talk to a Climate Skeptic: http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
                            Global Warming & Climate Change Myths: https://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by johnbryan View Post
                              I read a great account of a British tank platoon leader who managed to replace his Matilda 1's 30 caliber maingun with a 50 caliber machine gun and managed to get through much of the fighting retreat back to Dunkirk, even though being hit numerous times by German anti tank fire.
                              There were versions of the Matilda 1 with a heavy .50 (or more correctly a 12.7mm iirc) and Vickers 303 as standard kit. Not sure if they were platoon leader vehicles or just later production models. The armour of Matilda 1 was proof against the standard German 37mm gun at all but very close ranges. Its bigget drawback was its speed was only about 6 mph,... or a fast walk. Deliberate so that the tank could not outpace the infantry it was to support.
                              The Purist

                              Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assault of thoughts on the unthinking - John Maynard Keynes.

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