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U.S. limits support to rebels in Afghanistan in the 1980s

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  • U.S. limits support to rebels in Afghanistan in the 1980s

    What if the U.S. had limited assitance to the Afghan rebels fighting the Soviets and their allied government in Afghanistan?

    The rebels would be given just enough aid to keep them in the fight, but not enough to throw out the Soviets and the Soviet backed government.

    Could the Soviets have kept control of Afghanistan? If so would it have become the terrorist play ground it became?
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
    Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

  • #2
    Staying "in the fight" is what won them the war - they never "threw the soviets out"

    Guerilla-wars are won by outlasting the applicable empire not by outright defeating them.

    Reference Vietnam where technically the VC/NVA didn't throw the US out either, they just packed up and left - for whatever reasons may be.

    Grtz.
    Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

    Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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    • #3
      in my view,NOBODY can win in afghanistan without using nukes!
      Look at it like this,the last two times afghanistan has been invaded it has been by the two mightiest nations on earth,The USSR & The
      USA,which gave it their all and could only reach basically a stalemate.If that is the best they can do,i doubt anybody will top that!
      I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.
      General George Patton Jr

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      • #4
        Staying "in the fight" is what won them the war - they never "threw the soviets out"
        AFGHANISTAN knew it just had to stay in the fight and wait for the russians to get tired of counting body bags and shipping dead soldiers home,much like what the american army is doing now.people back in both countries got sick of seeing young people killed basically for nothing,they let the politicians know it,and eventually they did something about it.soldiers take orders,the public is a very different animal!
        I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight.
        General George Patton Jr

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        • #5
          Actually this was policy for quite a while. A Representative from East Texas, Charlie Wilson turned it around for the Afghans. Charlie was able to get the Saudis to match whatever he could sweet talk out of Congress and he got better arms. Some old hands at the CIA wanted to send them Lee-Enfiields from Pakistan and India, because the Afghans loved these guns. Charlie got them AK-47s! Charlie was able to find some experts in the CIA that actually wanted to win. He also got AAA weapons. He tried to get 20mm Oerlikons, but was able to get Stingers!

          The new threat to Soviet Air helped them to decide they had had enough of the place.

          Pruitt
          Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

          Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

          by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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          • #6
            BigJake 1963 and SnowyGerry,

            Obviously the Soviets had a breaking point where they said enough is enough. It appears that breaking point was around 15,000 KIA. In 1988 they pulled out.

            I would suspect that the introduction of the Stinger anti-air missle got them to that point much quicker.

            Of course with the collapse of the Soviet Union three years latter they would have been gone any way.

            It is surprising that the USA with a free press and a democratic-republican form of government lasted longer in Vietnam than the Soviets did in Afghanistan. Of course most Americans thought we were winning in Vietnam until the TET offensive of 1968. At that point public opinion started to shift.
            "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
            Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bigjake1963 View Post
              in my view,NOBODY can win in afghanistan without using nukes!
              Look at it like this,the last two times afghanistan has been invaded it has been by the two mightiest nations on earth,The USSR & The
              USA,which gave it their all and could only reach basically a stalemate.If that is the best they can do,i doubt anybody will top that!
              Genghis Khan didn't have nukes...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by bigjake1963 View Post
                in my view,NOBODY can win in afghanistan without using nukes!
                Look at it like this,the last two times afghanistan has been invaded it has been by the two mightiest nations on earth,The USSR & The
                USA,which gave it their all and could only reach basically a stalemate.If that is the best they can do,i doubt anybody will top that!
                Bigjake,

                The more I think about this neither the U.S. or USSR "gave it their all".

                And for good reason. I think both nations wisely decided to not commit the numbers of troops required for the length of time required to "win".

                As Copenhagen alludes to Genghis Khan conquered Afghanistan without nukes. Of course he used much more brutal tactics than the U.S. or probably even the USSR would use.
                "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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                • #9
                  Was it Tamerlane that built pyramids of skulls here?

                  Pruitt
                  Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                  Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

                  by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                    Genghis Khan didn't have nukes...
                    This is a meaningful difference. Neither the USSR nor NATO were ruthless enough to hunt down and kill every suspected Afghan terrorist.

                    The US did support enough Afgha factions to get them to assist in sendingthe Taliban across the border into Pakistan and like Vietnam left the alone in their safe zones.
                    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
                    George Mason
                    Co-author of the Second Amendment
                    during Virginia’s Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cyberknight View Post
                      This is a meaningful difference. Neither the USSR nor NATO were ruthless enough to hunt down and kill every suspected Afghan terrorist.

                      The US did support enough Afgha factions to get them to assist in sendingthe Taliban across the border into Pakistan and like Vietnam left the alone in their safe zones.
                      This is precisely what is required to "win" in this country. As our societies were not and are not prepared to behave in this way it was sheer folly to have stayed in this bloody place and stray (mission creep) beyond the original intent of going in there back in 2001.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
                        Was it Tamerlane that built pyramids of skulls here?

                        Pruitt
                        No, that was Isfahan in Persia.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
                          It is surprising that the USA with a free press and a democratic-republican form of government lasted longer in Vietnam than the Soviets did in Afghanistan. Of course most Americans thought we were winning in Vietnam until the TET offensive of 1968. At that point public opinion started to shift.
                          Except that the USA was still winning that war even after the TET offensive failed.
                          The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                          • #14
                            It is surprising that the USA with a free press and a democratic-republican form of government lasted longer in Vietnam than the Soviets did in Afghanistan. Of course most Americans thought we were winning in Vietnam until the TET offensive of 1968. At that point public opinion started to shift.
                            USA lasted 8 years and 5 months in Vietnam. USSR lasted 9 years and 2 months in Afghanistan.
                            There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hida Akechi View Post
                              Except that the USA was still winning that war even after the TET offensive failed.
                              The point wasn't whether the US was winning or losing before or after Tet. The point is that the preception changed and more Americans started to think the US was losing or in a stalemate.
                              "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                              Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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