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  • #31
    Originally posted by corsair View Post
    I've read an article about the russians pipe lines to bring fuel on the front lines, it was amazing and to me it's a kind of genius, the kind of idea that the germans have completely missed
    I've heard of pipelines laid across rivers and lakes to supply cities during the war, but I've never heard of this. Can you give me the link please, or was it in a printed magazine?

    Just the same that building a railway over a frozen lake for a winter duration
    Pretty good job indeed.
    Corsair
    In fact the railroad across the Lagoda lake wasn't completed, although about a half of it was built when the overland corridor was liberated in January 1943. A low pile-based bridge/railroad only intended to stay until spring was built across the Neva in the Shlisselburg area, and shortly after that the construction of a proper permanent bridge was started. All of this happened under ceaseless enemy air and artillery attacks.

    www.histours.ru

    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Destroyer25 View Post
      Much of the Wehrmacht was. As production rose later in the war more trucks were available, but allied strategic bombing among other things meant that Germany lacked the fuel for them.
      One of Sixth Army's complaints, when they were advancing toward Stalingrad, was they would frequently be delayed for want of fuel.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by broderickwells View Post
        One of Sixth Army's complaints, when they were advancing toward Stalingrad, was they would frequently be delayed for want of fuel.
        The Germans had certainly logistics difficulties in the run up to Stalingrad. But so did the Red Army. For some reason, that tends to be glossed over.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by The Ibis View Post
          The Germans had certainly logistics difficulties in the run up to Stalingrad. But so did the Red Army. For some reason, that tends to be glossed over.
          So we have the Germans in one corner going "Woe, alas, alack, no supplies", and the Red Army in the other saying "Snafu" and shrugging their shoulders.

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          • #35
            IMHO, the German army defeat at Stalingrad was doomed the moment Hitler decided to make the battle, one of political will...His against Stalin's. No amount of supplies or manpower would change the outcome, as Stalin was willing (seemly) to pile up bodies to defeat Hitler in his namesake city. Hitler's unwillingness to get out of the city and back on the steppes where his armies had a chance meant he was only going to pile up bodies.
            In this kind of battle the Soviet's had the edge as they had more bodies.
            An aside: Enemy at the Gates might be flawed due to new data coming forth but it does not mean it is inaccurate, just incomplete.

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            • #36
              Stalingrad

              If Stailngrad was lost to Hilter and the Nazis the war would automaticly be over for the Russians, they would lose there captiol and that would be very harsh for USSR. I'm so glad that Stailngrad was won a beif history lesson about Stalingrad. The man with the rifle shoots, and the man without the rifle follows and picks up dead people's rifles.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by WWIIWWIpilot View Post
                If Stailngrad was lost to Hilter and the Nazis the war would automaticly be over for the Russians, they would lose there captiol and that would be very harsh for USSR. I'm so glad that Stailngrad was won a beif history lesson about Stalingrad. The man with the rifle shoots, and the man without the rifle follows and picks up dead people's rifles.
                Umm, a brief note.......Moscow and not Stalingrad was, and is, the capitol of the then Soviet Union and today's Russia.
                If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by ShAA View Post
                  I've heard of pipelines laid across rivers and lakes to supply cities during the war, but I've never heard of this. Can you give me the link please, or was it in a printed magazine?



                  In fact the railroad across the Lagoda lake wasn't completed, although about a half of it was built when the overland corridor was liberated in January 1943. A low pile-based bridge/railroad only intended to stay until spring was built across the Neva in the Shlisselburg area, and shortly after that the construction of a proper permanent bridge was started. All of this happened under ceaseless enemy air and artillery attacks.

                  Where is that mural? I don't remember seeing it in the WW II museum in Moscow, and unfortunately the museum in Leningrad was closed when we were there.

                  Regards,
                  Dennis
                  If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                  Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by D1J1 View Post
                    Where is that mural? I don't remember seeing it in the WW II museum in Moscow, and unfortunately the museum in Leningrad was closed when we were there.

                    Regards,
                    Dennis
                    This one is very recent and it is currently on display (although what I saw was a photoprint of the original) at the "Road of Victory" museum in Morozova settlement near Shlisselburg. Well, museum is a big word for it, more like a small exhibition located in a special hall on the second floor of Petrokrepost train station.

                    Have a look at this thread: http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...d.php?t=104488
                    www.histours.ru

                    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by D1J1 View Post
                      Umm, a brief note.......Moscow and not Stalingrad was, and is, the capitol of the then Soviet Union and today's Russia.
                      You've got to take it easy on kids with computers, D1j1!

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                      • #41
                        And in all fairness to our young friend, had the Soviets pulled back in retreat from Stalingrad, and lost the city outright, it would have been a major political blow, as well as a blow to Russia's industrial and transportation capacity in that sector of the front.

                        It wouldn't have won the war for the Germans, but it certainly would have caused much consternation on the Red side of the lines.
                        Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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                        • #42
                          The tank factory had been lost back in August, IIRC, so no further industrial losses there. And the Volga was impassable to the usual barge traffic because the Germans reached the river north of the city anyway.

                          No, the function of 62nd Army clinging to their west bank positions was to gain time as further back a troop buildup occurred and the trap was set - Operation Uranus.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by clackers View Post
                            You've got to take it easy on kids with computers, D1j1!
                            B..b..b..but I thought I did Ian! My post was factually correct and polite and utilized none of the following smilies, (), no matter how germane to the writer they may have been! Besides, reading pidgin English makes my damn head hurt!

                            Regards,
                            Dennis
                            If stupid was a criminal offense Sea Lion believers would be doing life.

                            Shouting out to Half Pint for bringing back the big mugs!

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                            • #44
                              Actually, you did show great restraint, Dennis, you saint!

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