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  • June 1941: US declare war on Japan.

    WW II: The US take on the role as dominant power in the Pacific in June 1941 by declaring war on Japan.
    Instead of waiting for Japan to make the first move against the US. The US take the war to Japan.
    The reason: economical, defending it's Asian interests and protecting,
    it's for lack of better wording,
    associate nations from impending Japanese agression.
    What was covert becomes overt.

    Ed.
    Last edited by dutched; 24 Nov 11, 18:08.
    The repetition of affirmations leads to belief. Once that belief becomes a deep conviction, you better wake up and look at the facts.

  • #2
    Roosevelt has given up on the Battle of the Atlantic?
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    • #3
      This means that the USA will be working on its own agenda, it means that the USA will not adopt "Germany First" policy.

      All available resources will be put into first off building up the US Pacific Forces, the US will need to beef up its bastions within the Pacific region, this will have to have started in late 1939 early 1940.

      Meaning that the war in Europe will last a lot longer than it did, with no help forthcoming that may mean that i can say for certain that with a bloody conflict in the Pacific i will say that there will be no Lend Lease for some substantial time.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Roddoss72 View Post
        This means that the USA will be working on its own agenda, it means that the USA will not adopt "Germany First" policy.

        All available resources will be put into first off building up the US Pacific Forces, the US will need to beef up its bastions within the Pacific region, this will have to have started in late 1939 early 1940.

        Meaning that the war in Europe will last a lot longer than it did, with no help forthcoming that may mean that i can say for certain that with a bloody conflict in the Pacific i will say that there will be no Lend Lease for some substantial time.
        Pro-German Americans will campaign to leave England to its fate, and US attitudes might tilt in that direction as the war in the Pacific grows in intensity. Meanwhile, England has to protect it's east Asian colonies without US help as the US is pursuing its own agenda.

        I'm not seeing any of this as at all likely.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by dutched View Post
          WW II: The US take on the role as dominant power in the Pacific in June 1941 by declaring war on Japan.
          Instead of waiting for Japan to make the first move against the US. The US take the war to Japan.
          The reason: economical, defending it's Asian interests and protecting,
          it's for lack of better wording,
          associate nations from impending Japanese agression.
          What was covert becomes overt.

          Ed.
          Is this before Babarossa or after it? It's very important in this scenario.
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          • #6
            America's military potential is so far beyond Japan's the US couldn't use more than a fraction of it to win.

            But June '41 though ... does the US want to risk a fleet engagement?

            Shame the subs. torpedoes are faulty.

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            • #7
              Waiting for a good reason for the US to start a war in the Pacific given our interest in keeping things quiet there as much as possible so we could focus on the Atlantic. Without overt aggression on the part of the Japanese we were not going to expend forces there. DDs and cruisers were going to the Atlantic to bolster the convoy protection.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                Waiting for a good reason for the US to start a war in the Pacific given our interest in keeping things quiet there as much as possible so we could focus on the Atlantic. Without overt aggression on the part of the Japanese we were not going to expend forces there. DDs and cruisers were going to the Atlantic to bolster the convoy protection.

                A 'Taranto' strike on the Japanese fleet?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                  A 'Taranto' strike on the Japanese fleet?
                  With dud torpedoes. That would have been very bizarre. (Were the air torps as bad as the sub torps?)
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                  • #10
                    Hitler still might declare war in this scenario backing up its Axis ally.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                      Hitler still might declare war in this scenario backing up its Axis ally.
                      Possibly, but they weren't much into supporting each other. It would have given him an excuse of course. Given his logic on Dec. 11th, it's a toss-up from here.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                        Possibly, but they weren't much into supporting each other. It would have given him an excuse of course. Given his logic on Dec. 11th, it's a toss-up from here.
                        Exactly I don't see why Hitlers perverse logic would've necesarilly changed in this scenario especially as this time he can claim the nasty Americans have aggressively moved against his ally. Thats got more logic to it in a sense than the lunacy he followed in the original timeline.

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                        • #13
                          Interestingly, it was about this time that Japan made a demand of Germany that they lean on Vichy France to allow the IJA to occupy Indochina. In exchange for "keeping America busy in the Pacific."
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by OpanaPointer View Post
                            With dud torpedoes. That would have been very bizarre. (Were the air torps as bad as the sub torps?)
                            If I recall corectly the aircraft, destroyers, and submarines used three differing models. The USN destroyers that raided the IJN cargo ships in Indonesian waters in Febuary 1942 dont seem to have had a problem. The USN air droped torps dont seem to have hit much of anything in 1942, but there are many other reasons for that.

                            In any case the USN dive bombers were effective enough and seem to have been favored anyway as the principle strike weapon.

                            Beyond that a 'raid' on the IJN fleet is within USN strategy as planned through 1941. However a more aggresive warthat year, or much of the next is difficult to ponder. Through the previous two decades the USN had gamed out a Pacific war almost annually. From those results the Admirals favored a Fabian strategy of a year or more of raiding and long range sparing with the IJN, until a decisive superiority in capitol ships allowed a major offensive on favorable clearly terms.

                            Unless the USN is of a radically different composition, or has very different leadership a DoW in mid 1941 runs up against a USN waiting strategy. While it is possible for a aggresive strategy to be directed by the politicians there is little chance of the USN of 1941 gaining a decisively favorable result. The Admirals knew this hence their prudence in planning the intial war operations.
                            Last edited by Carl Schwamberg; 25 Nov 11, 10:46.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Gooner View Post
                              America's military potential is so far beyond Japan's the US couldn't use more than a fraction of it to win.

                              But June '41 though ... does the US want to risk a fleet engagement?

                              Shame the subs. torpedoes are faulty.
                              Some were, some weren't, that was the problem. The magnetic exploders on the torpedoes were useless, but the contact detonators sometimes worked. In August, 1942, the day after the disasterous naval Battle of Savo Island, where Japanese Cruisers sank several US and Australian Cruisers without loss to themselves, an old US S-boat submarine was cruising off the coast of New Irleand, when a formation of Japanese Heavy Cruisers hove into sight. Captain Howard "Dinty" Moore fired a perfect spread of four torpedoes into the belly of the Japanese Heavy Cruiser "Kako" and sank her in minutes.
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