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  • Air Aces

    I'm opening this thread because I haven't seen much on this forum about the air aces of ww2.


    I'll start with German ace Erich Hartmann. He's the highest scoring ace in history with about 350 victories (I'm not sure). He fought mostly on the Eastern Front, where he got his nickname "The Black Devil". After the war he got 25 years of labour in the Soviet Union, but served only 10. After his release in 1955, he joined the West German Luftwaffe. He resigned in 1970 and died in 1993.
    Mortal danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas.

  • #2
    He claimed 24 victories in August, 1943, 15 in September, 23 in November, and 28 in December, including seven on 28 December (his best day of combat). His success did not come without cost. He was shot down many times (some source say 7, some 9), he bailed out once, and was wounded twice. On 31 May 1944, Barkhorn was flying his sixth mission of the day in Bf 109 G-6 (WNr 163195) 'Black 5,' when he was bounced by a Russian Airacobra and shot down. He received severe wounds to his right arm and leg which put him out of action for four months. He returned to combat duty at the end of October.

    On 16 January 1945, Major Barkhorn was transferred to take command of JG 6 serving on Reichsverteidigung duties based at Posen. He led the unit until 10 April 1945 but was still suffering the effects of his wounds and eventually relinquished command for another spell in hospital. On recovery he joined JV 44. On 21 April 1945, flying an Me 262 jet fighter, an engine failed. He broke off his attack on some American bombers and returned to base at Riem. Pursued by the Mustang fighter escort he crash-landed his crippled machine in a clearing. The cockpit canopy, which he had opened to enable a quick escape, slammed shut on his neck. This put him back in hospital and out of the war.

    After the war Barkhorn became a Generalleutnant in the Bundesluftwaffe. He retired in 1976. He died, with his wife Christl, in an automobile accident on 6 January 1983.
    Last edited by Johnny_Reb; 01 Aug 11, 00:02.
    In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes
    - Benjamin Franklin, U.S. statesman, author, and scientist

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    • #3
      This link is about the German scoring system. This would mean that the German pilots did not get that many more kills than the Allied pilots did.

      http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgscor.htm
      In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes
      - Benjamin Franklin, U.S. statesman, author, and scientist

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Kolonelu View Post
        I'm opening this thread because I haven't seen much on this forum about the air aces of ww2.


        I'll start with German ace Erich Hartmann. He's the highest scoring ace in history with about 350 victories (I'm not sure). He fought mostly on the Eastern Front, where he got his nickname "The Black Devil". After the war he got 25 years of labour in the Soviet Union, but served only 10. After his release in 1955, he joined the West German Luftwaffe. He resigned in 1970 and died in 1993.
        In case you would like to see some more results,
        >>Search>>Advanced Search>>Keyword-aces>>Search Forums-weapons of war+world warII= http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forum...=1158172&pp=25
        6 pages of results. Not all relevant, but a very good start.
        Last edited by At ease; 28 May 10, 16:43.
        "It's like shooting rats in a barrel."
        "You'll be in a barrel if you don't watch out for the fighters!"

        "Talking about airplanes is a very pleasant mental disease."
        Sergei(son of Igor) Sikorsky, 'AOPA Pilot' magazine February 2003.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Johnny_Reb View Post
          This link is about the German scoring system. This would mean that the German pilots did not get that many more kills than the Allied pilots did.

          http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgscor.htm
          That is a point system used only to earn promotion. It is completely separate from the victory (or kill) count. A German with 40 victories shot down at least 40 planes. A German victory is exactly the same as an allied victory.

          The point system gave more credit for allied victories and success against bomber formations to determine when pilots were entitled to various medals.
          Last edited by Widow Maker; 29 May 10, 13:28.
          "Put guards on all the roads, and don't let the men run to the rear."
          Major General John Buford's final words on his deathbed.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Johnny_Reb View Post
            This link is about the German scoring system. This would mean that the German pilots did not get that many more kills than the Allied pilots did.

            http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgscor.htm
            Excellent link. Cheers!
            Mortal danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Kolonelu View Post
              I'm opening this thread because I haven't seen much on this forum about the air aces of ww2.


              I'll start with German ace Erich Hartmann. He's the highest scoring ace in history with about 350 victories (I'm not sure).
              He claimed 352 victories. However it must be remembered that the Luftwaffe system for checking claims was abandoned in late 44 and that a large number of his claims are based solely on his own word.

              I'm not saying he lied about the number he thinks he shot down, just that considering the difficulties of confirming claims in air combat we should not take the number quoted at face value.

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              • #8
                Anyway, given his age (19 at the start of the war) he was quite talented, and I don't think he could have lied about many victories.
                Mortal danger is an effective antidote for fixed ideas.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Widow Maker View Post
                  That is a point system used only to earn promotion. It is completely separate from the victory (or kill) count. A German with 40 victories shot down at least 40 planes. A German victory is exactly the same as an allied victory.

                  The point system gave more credit for allied victories and success against bomber formations to determine when pilots were entitled to various medals.
                  Ok thanks for clearing that up. I didn't quite understand why they would have a system like that, unless the were trying to use it as propaganda for the German Nation.
                  In this world nothing is certain but death and taxes
                  - Benjamin Franklin, U.S. statesman, author, and scientist

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