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  • Col. Jochen Peiper

    I have read several things about the Massacre at Malmedy, but I cant remember if SS Col. Jochen Peiper was ever held accountable for the massacre on 17 Dec. 1944? I know that he was tried for the crime on a capital punishment charge, but what became of it?

    Mark
    Deo Vindice
    Si vis pacem, para bellum. (If you want peace, prepare for war.)

  • #2
    Re: Col. Jochen Peiper

    Originally posted by last_cav1971
    I have read several things about the Massacre at Malmedy, but I cant remember if SS Col. Jochen Peiper was ever held accountable for the massacre on 17 Dec. 1944? I know that he was tried for the crime on a capital punishment charge, but what became of it?

    Mark
    Deo Vindice
    Pieper was tried and beat the rap. He had copies of all his orders
    and proved to the judges that Hitler had ordered the advance
    to be preceded by 'a wave of terror'.

    How he fared on other charges, I dont know.

    Comment


    • #3
      Peiper didn't really "beat the rap".

      He was found guilty of war crimes at the Dachau trials after the war but his defence council, Col Everitt, was so incensed at the verdict that he spent 10 years and over 40 000 dollars of his own money in overturning Peiper's conviction. Peiper was released in 1957 and worked as a salesman for Porsche and Volkswagen until he was fired because of the negative publicity his name generated. He then moved to Traves, France where, on July 13th, 1976, his home was firebombed and he was killed. Nobody was ever prosecuted for his murder.
      Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

      Comment


      • #4
        end

        Sounds like a perfectly good ending for an utterly bad man.
        Hope the days of his life after Malmady were nothing but memories of the Americans he killed and the fact that he ruined his family name.

        Mark
        Deo Vindice
        Si vis pacem, para bellum. (If you want peace, prepare for war.)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tigersqn
          Peiper didn't really "beat the rap".

          He was found guilty of war crimes at the Dachau trials after the war but his defence council, Col Everitt, was so incensed at the verdict that he spent 10 years and over 40 000 dollars of his own money in overturning Peiper's conviction. Peiper was released in 1957 and worked as a salesman for Porsche and Volkswagen until he was fired because of the negative publicity his name generated. He then moved to Traves, France where, on July 13th, 1976, his home was firebombed and he was killed. Nobody was ever prosecuted for his murder.
          'Warcrimes' does not equate with Malmedy, which is what I was speaking about.

          He did other things that I am sure caused him problems.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Irreverent
            'Warcrimes' does not equate with Malmedy, which is what I was speaking about.

            He did other things that I am sure caused him problems.

            http://www.geocities.com/talonsoftsf...ocs/Peiper.htm

            The above site more or less chronicle Peiper's military career; right up to his trial and release. IIRC, Peiper was never brought to trial for any other incident but the Malmedy massacre. So the "warcrimes" I mentioned would in fact be Malmedy.
            Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

            Comment


            • #7
              Joachim Peiper

              Joachim Peiper and his situations in World War Two was bizzarre. He was tried with other Leiberstandarte SS Officers associated with the Malmedy Massacree. Before the war, Peiper was a young adjutant to Heinrich Himmler (Reichfuhrer and commander of the Shultzstaffel -SS). Himmler was embarrased that Peiper was not a member of the Nazi Party.

              Peiper was sent to the Leiberstandarte SS combat unit on the Russian Front. He fought brave and sucessfully led a force to save a Wehrmacht Division after they were being surrounded deep in Russian lines.

              The Leiberstandarte SS was a bold, fierce unit and had some "phanatical" soldiers. Acts of brutality towards some of their captives surrounded their unit integrity. Peiper was given the nickname "blowtorch" Peiper for setting places on fire.

              But ironically, Peiper did some acts of humanity in the war. He did save some Jewish people in Italy from being murdered by other SS units and assisted U.S. soldiers in medical care during the Ardennes campaign (Hal McCown, a retired U.S. major general in 1972, testified at his trial).

              Peiper was seen by U.S. soldiers before the massacre. He was in the front element of his column and yelled out "See you in Tiperary" and did stated he later heard shooting from the location and was unaware of the activity. At the trial, he stated since he was the commander of his force, he should be accountable for the massacre. Him and other Germans stated that German soldiers had been massacred by U.S. soldiers (incident during the invasion of Italy involving U.S. soldiers). The court was not interested in such stories.

              Peiper was later convicted and was sentenced to death, but however his term was changed to life imprisonment and then released in the 1950s.

              Peiper was a good commander but he knew his men did inlawful acts of brutality. The same as Nathan Bedford Forest at Fort Pillow (U.S. Civil War), Geghis Khan terrror in Europe, etc. Things happen in war but a good commander should always stop acts of brutality in war.

              Peiper might had a good life after the war if he stood by his beliefs and addressed his men.

              His character and acts of being commander is a mystery that still exists from the war.
              VonMoltke

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Col. Jochen Peiper

                Originally posted by last_cav1971
                I have read several things about the Massacre at Malmedy, but I cant remember if SS Col. Jochen Peiper was ever held accountable for the massacre on 17 Dec. 1944? I know that he was tried for the crime on a capital punishment charge, but what became of it?

                Mark
                Deo Vindice
                Yes, he was tried and executed.

                OK, I stand corrected. I was sure he was tried and executed, but maybe I remember wrong, or just got ahold of some bad information.
                Mens Est Clavis Victoriae
                (The Mind Is The Key To Victory)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Peiper was not executed for the Malmedy Massacre. He stated at the trials that since his men committed this action, he should be blammed.

                  Peiper is a bizzarre character. He did things that one should commend and one should call him a murderer.

                  Commendation:

                  1. Saved a German division on the Russian Front (led an attack through three Russian defenses).

                  2. Never a member of the Nazi party. (Himmler's adjutant but was relieved due to questioning of party membership by other officials.

                  3. Helped Jews and P.O.W.s in Europe in World War Two.
                  (Some people testified his humainty even former U.S. Army officers Hal McCown and Everett at his trial).


                  Murderer

                  1. Acts of actrocities committed by the Leiberstandarte on the Russian, Ardennes, and other fronts (Peiper was never involved in them).

                  2. Acts of killing of civilians in Boles, France, Malmedy (Tris Points, Belgium), etc. (Peiper was not involved).

                  3. Knew of the "Final Solution" (Himmler's adjutant in the early years of the war).

                  NOTE: REGARD OF BEING A GOOD COMMANDER, ONE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ACCOUNTABLE OF HIS TROOPS' ACTIONS. :nonono:
                  VonMoltke

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FelixAlicea
                    Peiper was not executed for the Malmedy Massacre. He stated at the trials that since his men committed this action, he should be blammed.

                    Peiper is a bizzarre character. He did things that one should commend and one should call him a murderer.

                    Commendation:

                    1. Saved a German division on the Russian Front (led an attack through three Russian defenses).

                    2. Never a member of the Nazi party. (Himmler's adjutant but was relieved due to questioning of party membership by other officials.

                    3. Helped Jews and P.O.W.s in Europe in World War Two.
                    (Some people testified his humainty even former U.S. Army officers Hal McCown and Everett at his trial).


                    Murderer

                    1. Acts of actrocities committed by the Leiberstandarte on the Russian, Ardennes, and other fronts (Peiper was never involved in them).

                    2. Acts of killing of civilians in Boles, France, Malmedy (Tris Points, Belgium), etc. (Peiper was not involved).

                    3. Knew of the "Final Solution" (Himmler's adjutant in the early years of the war).

                    NOTE: REGARD OF BEING A GOOD COMMANDER, ONE SHOULD ALWAYS BE ACCOUNTABLE OF HIS TROOPS' ACTIONS. :nonono:
                    Command Magazine had a litany of atrocities that your hero was involved in, many (if not all) that you denied that he was involved in. The magazine also adds that he was an "ardent Nazi" and stayed that way up to his death. I don't have the issue handy, but when I do, I will post these items. You should find them enlightening.
                    I come here to discuss a piece of business with you and what are you gonna do? You're gonna tell me fairy tales? James Caan in the movie "Thief" ca 1981

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tom DeFranco
                      Command Magazine had a litany of atrocities that your hero was involved in, many (if not all) that you denied that he was involved in. The magazine also adds that he was an "ardent Nazi" and stayed that way up to his death. I don't have the issue handy, but when I do, I will post these items. You should find them enlightening.
                      First , you should read books on Jochen Peiper by Michael Reynolds. Although, I have never STATED that Peiper was my hero. Peiper, if you seen him in uniform was never a NAZI. Members of the Nazi Party wore a Nazi symbol big a a badge on their uniform. Peiper did not wear one.

                      Second, Himmler got rid of him as an adjutant because he was not a member of the party. READ books on him!

                      Third, at his trial, he stated that he was resonsible for his men actions during the war. You should blame former U.S. Army Col. William Everett and former U.S. Army Major General Hal McCown for defending him.

                      Fourth, you should look at his tactics in saving a German Division from destruction by attacking through two RUSSIAN DIVISIONS! I bet those veterans today (and their families) probably thank him.

                      Many military commanders throughout history have attrocities on their records including Nathan Bedford Forest (killing African American Soldiers in U.S. Civil War), British Col. William Tavington killing American Soldiers in the American Revolution.

                      As a military tactician, I look at the tactics like some but you should look at the tactics not the man inside.:nonono:
                      VonMoltke

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Peiper was SS.

                        Originally posted by FelixAlicea
                        First , you should read books on Jochen Peiper by Michael Reynolds. Although, I have never STATED that Peiper was my hero. Peiper, if you seen him in uniform was never a NAZI. Members of the Nazi Party wore a Nazi symbol big a a badge on their uniform. Peiper did not wear one.

                        Second, Himmler got rid of him as an adjutant because he was not a member of the party. READ books on him!

                        Third, at his trial, he stated that he was resonsible for his men actions during the war. You should blame former U.S. Army Col. William Everett and former U.S. Army Major General Hal McCown for defending him.

                        Fourth, you should look at his tactics in saving a German Division from destruction by attacking through two RUSSIAN DIVISIONS! I bet those veterans today (and their families) probably thank him.

                        Many military commanders throughout history have attrocities on their records including Nathan Bedford Forest (killing African American Soldiers in U.S. Civil War), British Col. William Tavington killing American Soldiers in the American Revolution.

                        As a military tactician, I look at the tactics like some but you should look at the tactics not the man inside.:nonono:
                        "Peiper in fact spent the entirety of his adult life prior to 1945 in the SS" Command Magazine #41 (1/1997). (Sidebar on page 41, entitled "Lt. Col. Jochen Peiper - Killer Elite" by Arnold Blumberg)

                        "But the main impression those who spent any amount of time with Peiper always came was of a man supremely arrogant, proud, ruthless and - above all - an ardent Nazi." (Same article as above)

                        "Peiper was well versed in the whole Nietschean philosophy undrpinning Nazism and was passionately dedicated to its realization. He fully subscribed to the theory of the existence of "higher races" and men who, bold and vigorous, cruel when necessary, could form a ruling caste of supermen capable of becoming lords of the earth." (Again, the same article and page)

                        A year after graduating the 10 month officer training course in 1935 was with the Leibstandarte Regiment. "Shortly thereafter, he was transferred to become Reichsfuhrer of the SS Heinrich Himmler's adjutant. In that position he became aware of the plans being formulated for the "final solution". He never raised any objection to them and appears to have been perfectly happy to help implement them." (Same as above)

                        His battalion of the Leibstandarte (he rejoined them when the war started) became known as the "blowtorch battalion" because they burned down the Ukrainian village of Pekartschina. He had his men use the flamethrowers mounted on their halftracks to accomplish this. (Same source as above)

                        Regarding wearing the Nazi Party badge, is it possible that Reynolds, was trying to make a point by showing a picture or two w/o the badge? Based on what I had quoted from the above, it appears that the opposite was true; that he was indeed a Nazi.

                        Regarding McCown and Everett, they were probably a couple of JAG lawyers who got assigned to his case; our legal system demands that even the guilty get a thorough, competent and vigorous defense. They were doing their jobs, I can't blame them, just as I can't blame other defense attorneys who had to defend men who they knew to be guilty. It is part of our legal system. It doesn't mean I have to believe he wasn't guilty, though.

                        Regarding his tactics that you mention, it was also mentioned in the article I cite. That was part of his job. Personally, I would have been happy to have seen him "buy the farm" there as he was fighting for the other side at the time.

                        You mention Forrest and Tavington. First, I think Forrest should have been tried for what he did at Ft. Pillow. Forrest and some of his Confederate compatriots, like Peiper and some of his Nazi compatriots, were whitewashed and lionized in postwar writings. This goes to a point I'd been trying to make people understand in both the ACW forum as well as the WW II forum, about the oft cited, but misconceived, notion that the victors write the history books. Stuff like this goes a long way towards proving my point. Second, there was no Col. William Tavington. He was a composite character, mainly based upon "the Butcher" Banastre Tarleton. Some of his movie actions, like the church burning, had been refuted.

                        I look at tactics, but I look at the other stuff, too. When reading, it is important to consider whether the author has an agenda he wants to accomplish. It seems apparent that Reynolds has an agenda - one meant to whitewash a demon. It is often the British and American way to write books defending those they fought against - sometimes because they believe in a cause, sometimes because they become enamored with the others guys' uniforms, sometimes because politics has changed. :nonono:
                        I come here to discuss a piece of business with you and what are you gonna do? You're gonna tell me fairy tales? James Caan in the movie "Thief" ca 1981

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Forrest has been by most historians exhonorated with regards to the Fort Pillow massacre. There is no record of him ordering executions of black Union soldiers. By the time he arrived he did what he could to restrain his men from further atrocities. As with Peiper he accepted responsibilty for his mens actions though he did not order their actions.

                          As to his record being "whitewashed" I would say its the opposite. If anything he was accused of things after the war that he had no part of. While certainly no angel Forrest is not the devil he has been made out to be by many.
                          Lance W.

                          Peace through superior firepower.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Peiper was SS.

                            Originally posted by Tom DeFranco
                            Regarding McCown and Everett, they were probably a couple of JAG lawyers who got assigned to his case; our legal system demands that even the guilty get a thorough, competent and vigorous defense. They were doing their jobs, I can't blame them, just as I can't blame other defense attorneys who had to defend men who they knew to be guilty. It is part of our legal system. It doesn't mean I have to believe he wasn't guilty, though.

                            Regarding his tactics that you mention, it was also mentioned in the article I cite. That was part of his job. Personally, I would have been happy to have seen him "buy the farm" there as he was fighting for the other side at the time.

                            McCown was actually Peiper's prisoner for several days during the Bulge; including part of the escape of Kampfgruppe Peiper from La Gleize.
                            He was the chief defense witness.

                            Everitt was assigned to Peiper as his defence attorney. Peiper was initially found guity of the Malmedy massacre; despite evidence that he did not order the shootings and was away leading the Pz spearheads. Everitt was so incensed at the judgment, that he spent over $40 000 of his own money over the next ten years proving Peiper's innocence. Peiper was released in 1957, after an investigation into the affair.
                            Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Malmedy

                              The one thing that I remember from the Malmedy Massacre was that it was a passing Sgt. in a half-track that started shooting and when he did; the prisoners broke ranks causing the rest of the passing column to start shooting.

                              That being said; there was no excuse for them going around and giving wounded Americans the coup de grace. And if my faulty memory serves; the Sgt. was arrested and shot/hung/executed for the war crime.


                              Cheers!



                              Eagles may fly; but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

                              "I'm not expendable; I'm not stupid and I'm not going." - Kerr Avon, Blake's 7

                              What didn't kill us; didn't make us smarter.

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