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Elite Units of the German Army 1939-1945

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  • In Endgame II, Glantz credits the successful fighting withdrawal of Manstein's AG in Feb-March 1943 with the heavy lifting done by 6.Pz, 7.Pz, 11.Pz, and 19.Pz.
    Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
    Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
    Barbarossa Derailed I & II
    Battle of Kalinin October 1941

    Comment


    • From GFM von Bock's war diary:

      1939, Poland
      : von Bock of AGN notes repeatedly that forces must advance quickly and without pause. He notes his (in his opinion) lack of infantry for the polish campaign and he sought to negate this with constant movement/ training his forces to seek the initiative. "speed and boldness of action"

      He notes that his motto is "artillery cannot keep infantry waiting". He likes artillery close to his infantry in combat, and in movement it should take priority over the march columns of the infantry. So the artillery is far forward on the march.

      - constant forest fighting strains the nerves of troops.

      - 1.ID and 12.ID have 'held up well' and are good condition after four weeks of moving.

      -Labor service personnel are of low value and are not producing results. Discussing with Brauchitsch as how to get rid of them.
      Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
      Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
      Barbarossa Derailed I & II
      Battle of Kalinin October 1941

      Comment


      • The 1.SSLAH reached a 'landmark' of sorts when it claims its 1,003 tank kill in WW2 by 21 December, 1943. half of this came from the battle of Kursk.

        This is up to one and a half years after the 1,000 tank kill of the 9.Panzer-division and a year after the 1,000 tank kill of the 11.Panzer-division.
        Last edited by Cult Icon; 25 Jul 15, 15:01.
        Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
        Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
        Barbarossa Derailed I & II
        Battle of Kalinin October 1941

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
          From GFM von Bock's war diary:

          1939, Poland
          : von Bock of AGN notes repeatedly that forces must advance quickly and without pause. He notes his (in his opinion) lack of infantry for the polish campaign and he sought to negate this with constant movement/ training his forces to seek the initiative. "speed and boldness of action"

          He notes that his motto is "artillery cannot keep infantry waiting". He likes artillery close to his infantry in combat, and in movement it should take priority over the march columns of the infantry. So the artillery is far forward on the march.

          - constant forest fighting strains the nerves of troops.

          - 1.ID and 12.ID have 'held up well' and are good condition after four weeks of moving.

          -Labor service personnel are of low value and are not producing results. Discussing with Brauchitsch as how to get rid of them.
          Thanks for the report of Bock's diary! (+1 but i must wait)

          In front of Moscow 41 Bock allowed to the defence of Kalinin Pz infantry manpower took from Third panzer Army (Cult if you have found info about it). Arty was forward with the panzers.
          So Russian's offensive broke the Third Pzr Army.

          Here he says "speed and boltness" context : yes but he knows that in november-december 41 his troops couldn't keep the move on duration.
          That's what i wanted to explain few years ago and i used a neologism : "re-link" i mean restore cohesion after the run. (i've been told to re-think ).
          Bock failed in nov 41 against military princips that he shared in 1939.

          Comment


          • Grosnain, the Fedor von Bock war diary is in print and should be easy to get.

            I have a copy of the "Vyzama Catastrophie" and it is mainly a tome about the Red Army's struggle/problems in Oct 1941.

            I don't know about that- I just know that AGC's divisions were bled dry of infantry by Nov 1941. Their attacks were too reliant on the fighting power of panzers plus the weakened Luftwaffe while boots on the ground were too few.

            This means that their divisions were not well balanced anymore- a disproportionate rear echelon and support weapons with a thin screen of infantry. This is combined with the mobility assets- which was mostly out of commission plus the tenuous logistics.
            Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
            Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
            Barbarossa Derailed I & II
            Battle of Kalinin October 1941

            Comment


            • Manpower at Kalinin is maybe detailed in battle of Moscow "Northern flank".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cult Icon View Post
                The 1.SSLAH reached a 'landmark' of sorts when it claims its 1,003 tank kill in WW2 by 21 December, 1943. half of this came from the battle of Kursk.

                This is up to one and a half years after the 1,000 tank kill of the 9.Panzer-division and a year after the 1,000 tank kill of the 11.Panzer-division.
                I'm pretty sure 1.SS-Pz.Div. claim was just for 1943 as the KTB of Pz.A.O.K. 4 states 1000 destroyed tanks in 105 fighting days in the east.

                Comment


                • Thanks for that. It appears that the figure is related to only the SSLAH after it was converted from a motorized ID.
                  Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                  Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                  Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                  Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                  Comment


                  • In "Where Iron Crosses Grow: the Crimea" the IR123 of the 50.ID was considered one of the best units operating there.

                    Its commander, Barenfanger, rose from a platoon commander in 1939 to a Major General by 1945. He commanded defense sectors in the battle of Berlin and committed suicide in the end.
                    Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                    Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                    Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                    Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                    Comment


                    • I haven't read Forczyk's Crimea book yet, it's on my list, however "The Crimean Campaign 1941-1944" by Wilhelm Tieke , published by JJF, is incredible as are all books by Tieke. Yes, Barenfanger was an incredible soldier. He was the highest decorated Battalion commander, the only combat soldier, not panzer, who won the Swords in that position...

                      Comment


                      • ...actually a correction. Barenfanger was one of two infantry battalion commanders who won the Swords. The other was Fritz Feßmann, who won the Swords posthumously in command of Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 5. However, he didn't receive the German Cross or Honor Roll Clasp as Barenfanger did, which still makes Barenfanger the most decorated Battalion commander. (Of course Michael Wittmann won his Swords in command of a company, but that was a panzer company, not infantry.)

                        Comment


                        • ^^

                          Thanks for that. Where Iron Crosses Grow probably sources Tiecke.

                          Have you read the GFM von Bock and Halder war diaries?
                          Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                          Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                          Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                          Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                          Comment


                          • This is my reading list (I have a lot of progress in the first four):

                            After # 59 I am not sure what's the best route to #60/61. I will either jump in directly or do everything on Hungary 44-45 first. The problem is that the ZB series, while very detailed from the German POV is weak on the Soviet POV. This involves a lot of late war Soviet dynamics. I figure that like in other reads (eg. Stalingrad Trilogy, Barbarossa Derailed), I need to do some preliminaries first in order to get the most of my run-through of the most valuable reads.

                            56. Generalfeldmarshall Fedor von Bock War Diary 1939-1945
                            57. The Halder War Diary 1941-1942 (VI-193)

                            58. Take Budapest! The Struggle for Hungary, Autumn 1944
                            59. The Battle of Leningrad, 1941-1944
                            AGC


                            60. Zhitomir-Berdichev: 24 December 1943-31 January 1944 Volume 1
                            61. Zhitomir-Berdichev: 24 December 1943-31 January 1944 Volume 2


                            62. Tomb of the Panzerwaffe
                            63. Panzerschacht: Armored Operations on the Hungarian Plains Sept-Nov 1944
                            64. Days of Battle: Armoured Operations North of the River Danube, Hungary 1944-45
                            Zhitomir-Berdichev, West of Kiev: 24 Dec 1943-31 Jan 1944
                            Stalin's Favorite: The Combat History of the 2nd Guards Tank Army
                            Barbarossa Derailed I & II
                            Battle of Kalinin October 1941

                            Comment


                            • I read von Bock's diaries...For Budapest and surrounding operations from the German perspective "Drama Between Budapest and Vienna" is good...more from a WSS perspective at the expense of Balck, yet very well written and detailed...I guess that book along with "Order in Chaos," and "Tomb of the Panzerwaffe," would help balance it, along with Nevenkin's and Számvéber's books...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by krichter33 View Post
                                I read von Bock's diaries...For Budapest and surrounding operations from the German perspective "Drama Between Budapest and Vienna" is good...more from a WSS perspective at the expense of Balck, yet very well written and detailed...I guess that book along with "Order in Chaos," and "Tomb of the Panzerwaffe," would help balance it, along with Nevenkin's and Számvéber's books...
                                I think you'd have to put them side by side and analyse the action blow by blow from everyone's perspective: somewhere the truth will fall.

                                Comment

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